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Author | Topic: Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: Not true. What you do shows who you are. You can preach till the cows come home but if you dont do anything but dance and sing about it, nobody sees anything other than a flake.It is a fact that we represent Jesus Christ here on earth. Or do you represent the Elks Club? In order for that to be a fact you would need to present evidence that Jesus is a reality. Otherwise, the only fact is that you are a representative of a human created religion.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Is it possible to belong to a club and ignore certain bylaws since the bylaws have no evidence? (Yes) Is it right to call yourself an Elk without believing in the Elk bylaws? Is it more honest to represent the Elks when talking about what the club stands for or to represent yourself? (The Elks)
But the topic has nothing to do with the Elks or any other Club, so it is irrelevant to talk about the Elks or any other club in this thread. The honest position is to try to address the topic.
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: Yes. Scripture explains it in Revelation. The Beast which you saw once was, now is not, and yet is for those whose names are not written in the book of life.Does the Beast exist, apart from a character in literature? Answer that one. Perhaps you should reread my question? Can you please explain how people are incapable of believing in a deity that doesn't exist? Also, you are the one who is claiming that the "Beast" exists. The burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate that the Beast exists. Do you still not understand how the burden of proof works?
What tests do you propose we use? The tests that would distinguish the supernatural from something that is made up.
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: Perhaps not. Enlighten me. Betrand Russell did a nice job of explaining it: "Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."Russell's teapot - Wikipedia The burden of proof lies with those who make the positive claim. It isn't up to us to disprove claims that leprechauns, Bigfoot, or deities are real. The burden of proof lies with those who claim that these entities are real. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: I'll throw that question out to all of you. Who do you represent? What does this question mean? Anything? My instinctive answer is 'nobody', but I'm struggling, as usual, to understand your question because your frame of reference is so alien to me. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: Is it possible to belong to a club and ignore certain bylaws since the bylaws have no evidence? (Yes) Is it right to call yourself an Elk without believing in the Elk bylaws? Is it more honest to represent the Elks when talking about what the club stands for or to represent yourself? (The Elks)
Is it correct to claim it is a fact that the Elks represent the wishes of a cabal of reptilian overlords simply because you believe it to be true? Is it correct to claim that since there is no evidence to show that this claim isn't true that it must therefore be true?
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: And I would agree. So about verification....Who Do You Represent? Do you still think that if you believe something fervently enough that it becomes a fact?
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If the Elks accept you as an Elk, you're an Elk. If you disregard the bylaws, it's up to them to decide whether to dehorn you or not. Is it right to call yourself an Elk without believing in the Elk bylaws? Edited by ringo, : Soelling.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Phat writes: So about verification....Who Do You Represent? I try to represent love, friendship and honour. But I stub my toe a lot Why do you think this label is important? No one can show you who they "Do" represent.People can only tell you who they represent. Sometimes people are mistaken.Sometimes people change. Sometimes people lie. If I fill my life with love, friendship and honour... does it matter if I say I represent God, or Satan, or Stile, or Thor, or The Great Gazoo?If I fill my life with confusion and frustration... does it matter if I say I represent God or Satan, or Stile, or Thor, or The Great Gazoo? Therefore, the only way to know the answer to this question... is to get to know the person you'd like the answer from. You'd have to spend time with them, you'd have to spend a lot of time with them... to understand the sorts of characteristics they fill their life with. Once you spend that time, you won't even need to ask the question.So, again, why do think such a label is important?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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If the Elks accept you as an Elk, you're an Elk. If you disregard the bylaws, it's up to them to decide whether to dehorn you or not. In your case they likely would keep you around for comic relief. Edited by Phat, : added sentenceChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
One of the better counter-arguments to this quote is known as Russell’s Teapot
Essentially the counter-argument is that absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence. quote: The link goes on to explain the life of Jesus as further evidence. The author concludes Or... we might point our metaphorical telescopes the other way, write articles about how ridiculous the idea is, and tell everyone that since there is no evidence, we refuse to believe it. The bottom line(in my mind) is not the proof itself. It is the necessity for such proof and the openness of the human heart to receive such an idea. Edited by Phat, : fixed breakageChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The link goes on to explain the life of Jesus as further evidence. How is the life of Jesus evidence of anything more than say the life of Don Diego de la Vega?
Phat writes: The bottom line(in my mind) is not the proof itself. It is the necessity for such proof and the openness of the human heart to receive such an idea. What does that even mean?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: The bottom line(in my mind) is not the proof itself. It is the necessity for such proof and the openness of the human heart to receive such an idea. This stuff must mean something to you because you keep saying stuff like it, but I have no idea what. It sounds like some more than usually garbled form of preachiness, that the audience would just nod to without thinking about it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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You may have a point. I'll take it into consideration.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: What I mean is that the public reaction to the death, burial, and reported resurrection of Jesus is much greater than most others who have died. How is the life of Jesus evidence of anything more than say the life of Don Diego de la Vega? Does a reaction count as evidence?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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