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Author
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Topic: The Concept of God -- Need Logic Help
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 34 of 81 (733574)
07-18-2014 12:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
07-17-2014 8:11 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
Phat writes: And even if we could theoretically blame Him, it would not change our responsibility in the matter.
That part I agree with. However, our responsibility is not to Him; it's to our fellow man, our world, our consciences, etc. When you drive a car, for example, you're not responsible to the lawmakers; you're responsible to the other people on the road. That's what the lawmakers made the law for.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by Phat, posted 07-17-2014 8:11 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 42 of 81 (733609)
07-19-2014 11:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 38 by NoNukes
07-18-2014 11:02 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
NoNukes writes: ... perhaps having the power to create universes full at the snap of a finger doesn't mean you can do every little thing...
That would throw omnipotence out the window, making "God" just another alien overlord. And if Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that those wacky humans always defeat the alien overlord.
NoNukes writes: ... or that you should try to micromanage every little thing.
If you deliberately wouldn't try to micromanage things like, say, putting out the fire in your neighbour's house, that would make you evil.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 07-18-2014 11:02 PM | | NoNukes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-19-2014 3:34 PM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 5:55 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 44 of 81 (733649)
07-19-2014 3:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
07-19-2014 3:34 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
Phat writes: You seemingly claim that if God is to be voted to be in charge, God should put out every fire, stop every war, and stand by with a box of spiritual band aids whenever we scuff our knee.
What do you think "in charge" means? Where does the buck stop? Would you really want a boss who punishes you for your failures and takes credit for your succeses?
Phat writes: If God had caused the fire....
He did. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have a Prime Mover and then blame all the movement on us.
Phat writes: Perhaps He simply smiles, points out the pail of water, shows you the fire....
But He doesn't. He hides in His heaven, refusing to even show us that He exists. We put out the fires ourselves and then He punishes us for the damage.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-19-2014 3:34 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 5:57 PM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 62 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 3:10 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 47 of 81 (733655)
07-19-2014 6:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by NoNukes
07-19-2014 5:55 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
NoNukes writes: ringo writes: If you deliberately wouldn't try to micromanage things like, say, putting out the fire in your neighbour's house, that would make you evil.
No, it wouldn't. You have the power of life and death over any individual insect in your back yard. I doubt you'd bother to rescue a single one of them from being stepped on.
So God thinks of us as insects? Feel the love.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 5:55 PM | | NoNukes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 7:12 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 52 of 81 (733702)
07-20-2014 2:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by NoNukes
07-19-2014 5:57 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
NoNukes writes: What's God's punishment for burning a house?
"Burning a house" was the metaphor we were using for our failures.[/qs] Edited by zombie ringo, : Fixed quote. Edited by zombie ringo, : Fixed quote again.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 5:57 PM | | NoNukes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2014 3:55 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 53 of 81 (733703)
07-20-2014 2:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
07-19-2014 7:12 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
NoNukes writes: All it takes to counter a proposition is a single counter example and I just wanted to show you that your own proposition was not a necessity.
I was responding to Phat's proposition, not stating one of my own.
NoNukes writes: God gave you a perfectly good solar system in which to live and right now he is busy elsewhere with somebody whom he has given less than he has given you. So don't screw up yours.
And if we do screw it up? Another Flood? An Apocalypse? What I'm saying is: Go and help the people you've given less to. Leave us alone to live with our screw-ups. Give help to those who need it instead of giving punishment for "free will" mistakes. Edited by zombie ringo, : Addedmissingspace.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 7:12 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 56 of 81 (733720)
07-20-2014 4:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
07-20-2014 3:55 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
NoNukes writes: Living with our own failures and our own successes is not the same thing as being punished.
That's what I'm saying. If a god punished us on top of the natural consequences of our actions, that would be arbitrary and unproductive.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2014 3:55 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 66 of 81 (792012)
09-30-2016 11:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
09-30-2016 8:36 AM
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Re: Interesting Responses
Phat writes: Ringo always demands evidence. He won't entertain any belief without it....
No. As I've said many times, belief is specifically for those situations where you don't have any evidence. If you have evidence for something, you ought to accept that it's true. (I know we sometimes use "believe" as in "believe in evolution" but I try to avoid that.)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 8:36 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 68 of 81 (792020)
09-30-2016 1:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 67 by Phat
09-30-2016 12:59 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
Phat writes: I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you?
It's insulting that you ignore us when we say, "No, the idea of Jesus is NOT insulting to me." Don't try to psychoanalyze people. You're not qualified.
Phat writes: The reason I bring it up is because I hear the word more from non believers than I do from religious folks.
Allow me to introduce you to Faith.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 12:59 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 69 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 2:35 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 74 of 81 (792044)
10-01-2016 11:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
09-30-2016 2:35 PM
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Re: Interesting Responses
Phat writes: ahhh so it insults you when I try and psychoanalyze you! Correct?
"Insult" isn't the word I would use but suppose you're eating your favorite ice cream and somebody keeps telling you, "No, you really prefer Coffee Mustard,'" and no matter how many times you tell them what you really think, they insist that they know you better than you know yourself.
Phat writes: You, on the other hand would be better off going to a qualified professional if you don't like my analytical style...
Your analytical "style" is a broken record.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 69 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 2:35 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 81 of 81 (794007)
11-08-2016 11:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
11-07-2016 8:39 PM
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Re: If It Walks Like A Deity...
Phat writes: Remember we are talking of a Creator of all seen and unseen...a Being who is all powerful and all knowing. Not some bumbling character in a book that is learning how to be a god.
We're talking about the god that YOU try to market - a bumbling fool who supposedly wants a "relationship" with us, yet he hides from us.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Phat, posted 11-07-2016 8:39 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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