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Author | Topic: The Concept of God -- Need Logic Help | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
PaulK writes: Unless you go with the "spiritual warfare" theory...which asserts (if I think it right) that in the beginning there was but one will...Gods. Lucifer was allowed to rebel, "freeing" his will from Gods will. Humans inherited the same offer...with the one provision that there were now 3 wills...Creator God, satans, and humans. If there isn't a personality - you - making choices, how can it even be called will ? We could argue that God foreknew all of this--hence He is evil. Satan has the same argument...that its not his fault that he became who he is. Its Gods fault. As humans, we can wave all of the unproven spiritual reality away and assert that it is in reality one will...our own. Our will is only truly free without hindrance from any other spiritual entity. I pray---in part----because I believe that there is an ideal will that I myself cannot attain on my own intelligence or soul. That is an essence of my personal belief. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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If God created Satan in such a way that Satan would inevitably rebel then God is certainly responsible. Free Will would make Satan also responsible, but can't absolve God. Based on this logic, God is responsible for literally everything Which I disagree with. And even if we could theoretically blame Him, it would not change our responsibility in the matter.When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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All I am saying is that the "Christian God is not responsible for what you or I choose to do,think, or behave. He may well be responsible for allowing the possibility of evil but not the choice itself, even if foreknown..
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
zombie writes: Here again, you want your cake and eat it too. You prefer humans to be in charge of their own lives and neighborhoods. You seemingly claim that if God is to be voted to be in charge, God should put out every fire, stop every war, and stand by with a box of spiritual band aids whenever we scuff our knee. If you deliberately wouldn't try to micromanage things like, say, putting out the fire in your neighbour's house, that would make you evil. You seem to have an axe to grind with the Big Guy. You wont let Him be in charge over you unless He takes care of everybody. Perhaps He simply smiles, points out the pail of water, shows you the fire, and stands back like a parent...empowering His offspring---zombie Ringo---as magistrate over the small town that you live in. If God had caused the fire, that might be another thing entirely. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
He hides in His heaven, refusing to even show us that He exists. I dont feel that way. Perhaps you do because you are stuck on the "show" and un moved by any feeling.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It would be insulting to some. Ringo and I have a long history of going round and round with this stuff. I think he understands that its not personal.
Ringo always demands evidence. He won't entertain any belief without it, although there cannot be any evidence in regards to anything labeled supernatural. Im chiding him for "not feelin it". Relax. For you're benefit, I might add: *Blink* "You Did Not Just Say That, Did You?"Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You do understand just how insulting that statement is, yes? I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you? Theodoric trots out the word quite often..as if how dare I say such things! The reason I bring it up is because I hear the word more from non believers than I do from religious folks.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ahhh so it insults you when I try and psychoanalyze you! Correct?
And yes, I thought of Faith. She is a sensitive one. You, on the other hand would be better off going to a qualified professional if you don't like my analytical style...but just between us internet friends, i'm free and they cost money. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
An omnipotent entity, such as God or anything, would be seduced instantly into omniscience, and it seems unfathomable to think otherwise. What on earth would have the power to seduce God?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
According to the Bible a need to show who has the bigger dick (Exodus), a need to show who is stronger (Genesis 32), getting Her panties in a wad (Biblical Floods),...etc As you have pointed out before, the Bible can be used to say anything we want it to say. Why would God need to prove himself to mere humans? Remember we are talking of a Creator of all seen and unseen...a Being who is all powerful and all knowing. Not some bumbling character in a book that is learning how to be a god. Or is that how you as a teacher choose to present the Deity? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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