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Author Topic:   Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within
Taq
Member
Posts: 10042
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 261 of 277 (791976)
09-28-2016 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Tangle
09-28-2016 5:13 PM


Re: you got some 'splainin to do...
Tangle writes:
I was thinking about it in a church today at a funeral. The priest was saying similar stuff. It really made no objective sense, but it had become so normalised that nobody noticed. People get so used to it over the years that they hardly listen to it - it's a rhythm; the ritual is the message, the language is just mood music.
But if you actually listen to the words, they carry no actual meaning.
This is EXACTLY what I have noticed over the years. It was part of what led me to leave the church. I suddenly realized that 99% of the time I wasn't even listening to what the pastor was saying, much less care what he was saying. When I did listen and actually try to make sense of it, I realized that it was just word salad. You can find tons of good examples by reading the lyrics of modern Christian praise songs. It's almost as if it's a Scrabble game where the tiles have things like "Grace of God" or "Kingdom of God" on them. Pastors draw 8 of them, put them in a random order, and then base their sermon on that word salad. It's like listening to someone who just strings a bunch of clichs together:
"Birds of a feather flock together, but it often goes over like a lead balloon. Instead, opposites attract while time heals all wounds."
That's what sermons sound like.
I grew up in a devout Christian family, but I harbor them no ill will. I think they have come to the realization that I am no longer a believer (took them 20 years), and they are actually being cool about it. Mom wanted me to go to church on Mom's Day, and I agreed in 1 second because it was a special day and she rarely asks. During the sermon I really had the urge to ask someone in my family if they can explain what was just said. I suspected that they wouldn't be able to. I suspect that no one would be able to. However, since they are being cool with my whole kitten-eating atheism, I didn't push it. Still has me curious if they could explain what was said, but I suspect it will always remain a curiosity.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Tangle, posted 09-28-2016 5:13 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 12:42 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10042
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 269 of 277 (792023)
09-30-2016 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
09-30-2016 12:42 PM


Re: you got some 'splainin to do...
Phat writes:
would you say that the Bible itself sounds like meaningless cliches? In general, that is?
I would agree that you can find many examples of meaningless phrases in the Bible.
Give me an example of something said that is meaningless and I'll see if I can explain it.
Here is an example:
"One need not look very far to see examples of discord, hostility and disunity within humanity and even within creation. Culture wars, political wars, theological wars and military wars abound. What, we might ask, is the source of all this hostility? And, more importantly, what is the source of true peace, true unity, true harmony? Paul tells us in Ephesians that Jesus is the one true peace. Jesus IS our peace and the Holy Spirit is the unifier. A new president or policy or military leader or social activist will not bring peace. Only when people accept the one (Jesus) who IS peace, who IS harmony will true unity come. "
Page not found - Woodland Hills Church

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 12:42 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 2:23 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10042
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 272 of 277 (792026)
09-30-2016 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
09-30-2016 2:23 PM


Re: you got some 'splainin to do...
Phat writes:
Greg Boyd, eh? I can google the sermon and even the Bible reference, but lets do something different. Pretend that I am an associate Pastor at your families church. You see me and we briefly chat and shake hands. You ask me if I have a few minutes to talk and I say sure, lets go into the cafe. So here we are.(we just had coffee...you offered to buy, but I beat you to it!
So perhaps your question sounds something like this: "Phat, to be honest with you, that sermon today by guest speaker Greg Boyd made absolutely no sense to me." It sounded like a string of meaningless cliches and pious platitudes. Am I missing something?"
Does that sound right so far?
At this point I would be getting a bit frustrated because I have already said that it is full of meaningless phrases, and your first response is to repeat my question back to me.
I have given an example, as you asked me to do. Please explain how it isn't a bunch of meaningless phrases and platitudes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 09-30-2016 2:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 10-01-2016 1:23 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10042
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 275 of 277 (792089)
10-03-2016 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phat
10-01-2016 1:23 AM


Re: you got some 'splainin to do...
Phat writes:
Im not sure that I don't actually agree with you. What I was trying to do, however, is to engage you in a conversation about whether the texts out of the Bible upon which the sermon was based were meaningless. If so, I suppose the discussion is stalled at that point.
Then engage in the conversation. No one is stopping you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 10-01-2016 1:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 10-05-2016 2:05 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10042
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 277 of 277 (792148)
10-05-2016 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
10-05-2016 2:05 AM


Re: To Be Honest...
Phat writes:
But then I am at Day 80 of sobriety and am getting prepared for some serious mental brain healing. It will be interesting whether I will become more or less of a zealot once my brain changes.
Getting rid of an entrenched dependency can't be easy, so I wish you luck. I have had my own periods of detox when trying to rid myself of nicotine, so I understand the ups and downs. Good luck, and keep plugging away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 10-05-2016 2:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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