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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design just a question for evolutionists
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 7 of 60 (792176)
10-06-2016 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
10-06-2016 6:04 PM


Well, who the designer is depends on context. When IDists are trying to get Christians to support them, it's totally God, and then when they're trying to persuade a judge that they're not violating the First Amendment they're all: "Well, it doesn't have to be God, it could be ... uh ... aliens. Yeah, aliens!"

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 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 10-06-2016 6:04 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 28 of 60 (792203)
10-07-2016 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
10-06-2016 6:04 PM


If something has the elements of design it is designed. (X is X, Law of identity)
Life has the elements of design
Therefore life is designed.
"If something is designed then it is designed" would be the law of identity.
To examine your proposition, which is different, we would have to know what you think "the elements of design" are.
We would then need to verify your premises by checking (a) whether all things which have these elements are indeed designed (b) whether life has those elements.
Now, suppose we cannot agree on whether things with what you denote as "the elements of design" really are always designed. Suppose I were to suggest that some of them, namely living organisms, were products of evolution. Then in order to establish the first premise, you would have to come up with some argument that living things are designed rather than evolved. Which is what you were trying to do in the first place: in order to make you argument for the design and against the evolution of organisms watertight, you would first have to construct a watertight argument for the design and against the evolution of organisms.

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 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 10-06-2016 6:04 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 42 of 60 (792225)
10-07-2016 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Genomicus
10-07-2016 10:56 AM


"Imagine that in 1957 a clairvoyant biologist offered as a hypothesis the exact genetic code and mechanism of protein synthesis understood today. How would the proposal have been received? My guess is that Nature would have rejected the paper. 'This notion of the ribosome ratcheting along the messenger RNA three bases at a timeit sounds like a computer reading a data tape. Biological systems don’t work that way. In biochemistry we have templates,where all the reactants come together simultaneously, not assembly lines where machines are built step by step.'"
From: Hayes, B. The Invention of the Genetic Code. American Scientist.
Surely the paper would actually have been rejected because clairvoyance is not an accepted form of scientific inquiry. When people produced actual evidence, where was the pushback from people saying "you must be wrong because biochemistry doesn't work that way"?

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 56 of 60 (792277)
10-07-2016 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Genomicus
10-07-2016 12:57 PM


Eh, not really the point of that quote. The point of that quote is not to explore the nature of scientific publication practices. The point is to highlight how a genetic code was not an expected reality of the non-teleological framework.
Well, if you can actually find me someone who said before the discovery of the ribosome that protein synthesis couldn't happen bit by bit instead of simultaneously, or pushing back against the discoveries as they were made on the grounds that they had to be wrong, and doing so with reference to a "non-telelogical framework", then that would illustrate your point nicely.

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