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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
Phat
Member
Posts: 11416
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 61 of 227 (776981)
01-24-2016 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
01-07-2016 8:42 PM


OCD and Biochemical Changes Part 2
Having nearly finished the book,I have grasped the essence of what Schwartz is teaching. Several key points:
  • Its not what one feels but what one does. We may feel all sorts of odd compulsions. Our brain will tell us to act out. Our impartial observer has the option of doing or not doing the compulsion, however. In fact, the worst thing that an individual can do is to try and deny the feeling. The key is to change the response. Only by actively engaging the compulsion can the brain actually begin to change.

    I know this sounds obvious but....

    Its working for me, at any rate.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 60 by Phat, posted 01-07-2016 8:42 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
  • Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 62 of 227 (791207)
    09-12-2016 5:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 30 by ringo
    01-02-2015 11:54 AM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    ringo writes:

    So the distinction is between addiction and need. An addiction is a counterfeit "need".

    The latest research proves that the brain changes and adapts itself to the addiction. This is known as neuro-plasticity.

    Also, Ringo:

    Phat in 2014 writes:

    I need your prayers and advice. On my end of the deal, I will try and do my best. This is officially day 4 of sobriety


    ringo writes:

    Everything we do in one area deprives another area.


    2014 Phat writes:

    IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.


    Ringo writes:

    Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channeled in another direction?


    2014 Phat writes:

    Lets do some research on this one. Assuming EvC (and us) are still here in six months, let me get back to you on this one.

    And here it is September of 2016, almost two years after that conversation. Today is September 12,2016---Day # 57 of sobriety. The longest I have been able to be sober in 20 years has been 72 days. I have done some research on your question, and am eager to resume our conversation.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 30 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 11:54 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 63 of 227 (791209)
    09-12-2016 5:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 44 by New Cat's Eye
    05-29-2015 2:52 PM


    Re: Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
    Cat Sci in 2015 writes:

    I'm glad you found something better. How's it coming along?

    Seems as if every year i manage to read a new book and get in a couple of 30-50 day runs at sobriety!

    This years book is called Healing The Addicted Brain. What specifically I've learned that I didnt know before is how the healing process works-namely the patient must feel safe before the brain will resort back to its natural state.
    I also found out that there are definite medical reasons why a person wont listen to common sense early in recovery and why traditional programs don't work.

    Again...it takes 40 days for the brain to stop seething. Another 90 days for the brain to reset itself if the patient feels safe. At this point (130-150 days) major feelings come from subconscious to conscious level and must be addressed therapeutically. After that it takes 5-12 months to deal with family and relational issues.

    I promised to keep sober with all of you and report the effects two years ago, but it took this long to get up to day 57. Lets resume...and I'll honestly report my progress.

    Edited by Phat, : added


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-29-2015 2:52 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 64 of 227 (791919)
    09-26-2016 9:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
    12-14-2014 2:11 PM


    Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
    Phat, 2014 writes:

    IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.

    Ringo writes:

    ...Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channelled in another direction?

    Lets pick up where we left off two years ago. I have learned a few more things since then and am as of today sober from gambling for 71 days. So to answer your question, yes. behavior quite typically jumps from the primary addiction to another potential or actual addictive habit. Science has shown that an addiction can be defined through MRI scans comparing a "normal" brain to that of a proven addict. Research has shown that most addictions follow the same basic brain pattern. Some of the characteristics include the frontal lobe heating up and showing a higher temperature.

    Behavior changes. Research has shown that an addict apparantly selectively blocks out sound advice and amplifies destructive advice. Imagine two voices from those around you. One voice says "You should get help. You are hurting yourself. Here is the science." The voice has an amplification recognition of 2 out of 10. Another voice says "Hey lets go have a drink. Lets party!"
    That voice is measured at an internal amplification of 9 or 10 out of 10.
    Research shows that the brain will heal enough to listen but that it takes 21-40 days. This is why the recidivism is so high. talk therapy (12 step groups or counsel) is ineffective until some sobriety is achieved.

    Book junkie that I am, I bought yet another book which I will use. Memoirs Of An ADDICTED BRAIN by Marc Lewis. Here is an overview:

    quote:
    Our minds are governed by a cycle of craving what we don't have, finding it, using it up or losing it, and then being driven by loss, need, desire, or insecurity to crave it all the more. This cycle is at the root of all addictions: addictions to drugs, drink, cigarettes, sex, love, soap operas, wealth, and wisdom itself. But why should this be so? Why are we so driven, often at great cost to ourselves? No one is better qualified to answer these questions than Dr. Marc Lewis. He is a distinguished neuroscientist. And, for many years, he was a drug addict himself, dependent on a long series of dangerous substances. His narrative moves back and forth between the long, dark, ultimately triumphant story of his relationship with drugs, and a revelatory analysis of what was going on in Marc's brain. He shows how drugs speak to the brain--itself designed to seek rewards and soothe pain--in its own language. He shows in detail the different neurological effects of a variety of powerful drugs, from oxycodone to heroin, from drink to love. This is the story of his journey, seen from the inside out.

    Of course I can read all of the books in the library on the subject and still never understand it without undergoing a healing journey myself. This topic and my other one on the 12 steps both document my previous attempts and my failure to reach the level of sobriety needed. My hope and prayer is that this time--in 2016--i can achieve my goal and report my experience back to all of you.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:11 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    (1)
    Message 65 of 227 (792130)
    10-05-2016 2:02 AM


    Day 80
    Day 80! I am excited!! 50 more days to get to Ground Zero and face the pain

    I might add that other addictions are coming up now and I am addressing them also.

    The healing shall happen this time! Stay tuned....

    Estimated Day 130: Thanksgiving, November 24th.

    Estimated healing period: 3 months to a year


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    (1)
    Message 66 of 227 (792471)
    10-10-2016 10:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
    12-12-2014 11:26 AM


    Day 85 and glad to be alive
    ringo writes:

    Q: Do you suffer from addiction?
    A: No. I enjoy it.

    I made it to Day 85!

    And to be honest I am scared to death of a relapse. Experience has shown me that it never ends well.

    So did I enjoy my addiction, in retrospect? Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet. Stay tuned...

    Im starting to feel some deep emotions that I cant quite manage...such as fear of being alone, fear of loss (of sanity, perhaps?)


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by ringo, posted 12-12-2014 11:26 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 67 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 10:37 AM Phat has responded
     Message 69 by ringo, posted 10-11-2016 12:07 PM Phat has responded

      
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 19666
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    (2)
    Message 67 of 227 (792472)
    10-10-2016 10:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
    10-10-2016 10:30 AM


    Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
    congratulations, now keep going step by step.

    Im starting to feel some deep emotions that I cant quite manage...such as fear of being alone, fear of loss (of sanity, perhaps?)

    this is where group therapy helps, by seeing and helping others in similar circumstances so you are not alone and not losing touch.

    Strength.


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by Phat, posted 10-10-2016 10:30 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 68 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 3:07 AM RAZD has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    (1)
    Message 68 of 227 (792533)
    10-11-2016 3:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 67 by RAZD
    10-10-2016 10:37 AM


    Day 86
    this is where group therapy helps, by seeing and helping others in similar circumstances so you are not alone and not losing touch.
    I am involved in group therapy as well as working with a licensed addictions counselor. I am determined to do my part in the healing process.

    Day 86 as I type this.

    Estimated beginning of intense reboot (neuroplasticity) Day 130-approx. Thanksgiving.

    Estimated length of healing process: Unknown. The brain will only change when "it" feels safe. Right now I am unemployed and looking for work so Im unsure how safe I really feel.

    My counselor mentioned that a trait that is unique to gamblers over other addictions is a vague sense of entitlement. As has been pointed out to me before here at EvC, I DO in fact exhibit such a trait.

    In fact, I'm praying to get my old job back. The Union is awaiting a Step Two meeting to attempt to do just that.

    I am honest enough to realize, however, that I may not get what I want. Stay tuned...


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 67 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2016 10:37 AM RAZD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 71 by Stile, posted 10-12-2016 9:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 74 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:21 AM Phat has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 15577
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.6


    Message 69 of 227 (792555)
    10-11-2016 12:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
    10-10-2016 10:30 AM


    Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
    Phat writes:

    Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet.


    Who is?

    When I see people making bad decisions I wonder if they ask themselves, "Is this going to improve my life?" Of course we all make decisions based on a combination of logic and feelings, so being "in touch with your feelings" isn't an end in itself.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by Phat, posted 10-10-2016 10:30 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 70 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 11:13 PM ringo has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 70 of 227 (792607)
    10-11-2016 11:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 69 by ringo
    10-11-2016 12:07 PM


    Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
    Phat writes:

    Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet.


    ringo writes:

    Who is? Of course we all make decisions based on a combination of logic and feelings, so being "in touch with your feelings" isn't an end in itself.


    Lets use an analogy which shows the difference between fear and anxiety.
    Anxiety
    According to authors Sadock, Sadock, and Ruiz (2015), anxiety is “a diffuse, unpleasant, vague sense of apprehension…” It is often a response to an imprecise or unknown threat. For example, imagine you’re walking down a dark street. You may feel a little uneasy and perhaps you have a few butterflies in your stomach. These sensations are caused by anxiety that is related to the possibility that a stranger may jump out from behind a bush, or approach you in some other way, and harm you.

    This anxiety is not the result of a known or specific threat. Rather it comes from your mind’s vision of the possible dangers that may result in the situation.

    Anxiety is often accompanied by many uncomfortable somatic sensations. Some of the most common physical symptoms of anxiety include:

    headaches

    muscle pain and tension
    sleep disturbances
    tightness felt throughout the body, especially in the head, neck, jaw and face
    chest pain
    ringing or pulsing in ears
    excessive sweating
    shaking and trembling
    cold chills or hot flushes
    accelerated heart rate
    numbness or tingling
    depersonalization and derealization
    upset stomach or nausea
    shortness of breath
    feelng like you are going insane
    dizziness or feeling faint
    Fear
    Fear is an emotional response to a known or definite threat. Using the scenario above, let’s say you’re walking down a dark street and someone points a gun at you and says, “This is a stick up.” This would likely elicit a response of fear. The danger is real, definite and immediate. There is a clear and present object of fear.

    Although the focus of the response is different (real vs. imagined danger), fear and anxiety are interrelated. When faced with fear, most people with experience the physical reactions that are described under anxiety. Fear causes anxiety, and anxiety can cause fear.
    But, the subtle distinctions between the two will give you a better understanding of your symptoms and may be important for treatment strategies.

    Being in touch with your feelings allows you to face fear, for example. Anxiety is harder to face since it cannot be defined. Remember also that addictions are a mal-adaptive response to stres
    Essentially, knowing the feelings specifically helps one to face them rather than self medicate them.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 69 by ringo, posted 10-11-2016 12:07 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 72 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 11:47 AM Phat has responded

      
    Stile
    Member
    Posts: 3257
    From: Ontario, Canada
    Joined: 12-02-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 71 of 227 (792624)
    10-12-2016 9:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
    10-11-2016 3:07 AM


    Re: Day 86
    Phat writes:

    Day 86 as I type this.

    Go Phat, go!! You can do it!!!

    I am involved in group therapy as well as working with a licensed addictions counselor.

    Keep your head on your shoulders for the group therapy.
    Having others around who also want to heal, and are around the same stage as you can be a powerful agent to help you in your journey.

    Then again,
    Having others around who may not be as strong as you can be a powerful agent to slipping back into trouble.

    Group therapy has it's good parts and bad parts.
    Just try to keep your head up and remained focused and do your thing and you should be fine!

    Anxiety is harder to face since it cannot be defined.

    Yup. It's a tough one.
    Hopefully your counselor has some good advice.

    Pretty much any advice dealing with controlling instincts is easier said than done.
    Hopefully you can find something that resonates and motivates you.

    For me, it's something along the lines of what they say in the Dune book series - "Fear is the mind-killer."
    That is, when you're in trouble... the way to give yourself the best-chance to deal with it is to have a clear mind so you can think and make conscious decisions and avoid panic. Fear leads directly to panic, which is reacting instinctively and removing your mind (your best-chance to survive) from the equation.

    Instincts give you *a* chance to survive the situation.
    Your mind (thinking and making conscious decisions) gives you your *best* chance to survive the situation.

    Good luck!


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 3:07 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

        
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 15577
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.6


    Message 72 of 227 (792641)
    10-12-2016 11:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
    10-11-2016 11:13 PM


    Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
    Phat writes:

    Being in touch with your feelings allows you to face fear, for example. Anxiety is harder to face since it cannot be defined.


    So you're afraid of falling back into addiction because you know about the consequences. Are you anxious too?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 70 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 11:13 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 2:51 PM ringo has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 73 of 227 (792648)
    10-12-2016 2:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 72 by ringo
    10-12-2016 11:47 AM


    Re: Day 85 and glad to be alive
    No. I am anxious when addicted. I am fearful when sober.

    Perhaps knowing that it is a concrete emotion I am facing helps me to stay sober.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 72 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 11:47 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by ringo, posted 10-13-2016 11:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 19666
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    (1)
    Message 74 of 227 (792687)
    10-13-2016 8:21 AM
    Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
    10-11-2016 3:07 AM


    Re: Day 86
    step by step, my friend.

    do you have another interest to devote your energy to? a place to "blow off steam?" Exercise can generate endorphins and these can make you feel good about yourself. We joined a gym, and I find it gives me more positive attitude the rest of the day. Side effects: you get healthier ...

    Enjoy


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by Phat, posted 10-11-2016 3:07 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by Phat, posted 10-13-2016 9:29 AM RAZD has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 11416
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    (1)
    Message 75 of 227 (792694)
    10-13-2016 9:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 74 by RAZD
    10-13-2016 8:21 AM


    Day 88 and feeling great!
    Good morning, RAZD! Exercise is very important to me, as I have Type II Diabetes and my feet are growing numb and insensitive. Recovery has given me a much clearer picture of reality, duty, and priority.

    My counselor asked me to meditate on the following question:

    quote:
    How much has your addiction cost you so far in this life? How much more can you afford?

    When one hears a word such as cost one immediately thinks in terms of money.
    And it is true that I have spent a lot of money. A conservative estimate would be that over the course of 33 years that I have gambled, I spent close to $138,000.00. This is only one facet of cost, however. Gambling--more specifically an addicted brain, cost me in other ways.

  • I failed to finish college.
  • I failed to plan for retirement.
  • I deprived myself of opportunities to make new friends, explore and visit new places,study new disciplines,and even worship Jesus on a deeper level.
  • My health has suffered as an indirect result of my compulsive gambling addiction.

    Perhaps my counselor wanted me to understand just how damaging my addiction was to me.

    On a positive note, I am exercising more, getting out more and reuniting with old friends as well as making new ones, and even posting at EvC more...if that counts!


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 74 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:21 AM RAZD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 77 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 10:52 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
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