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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 46 of 892 (792688)
10-13-2016 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
10-12-2016 12:28 PM


Re: sigh
I'm just not going to vote.
I'm going to vote for Jill Stein for president in order to see if we can get the Green Party vote count over 5%.
Down ticket I am voting for progressives in federal and state positions -- building the progressive base that will put Bernies policies into law, eventually if not this election cycle,
And to take back the senate and the house, which is more important than president -- they write the laws and approve the appointments.
What Donald has done to the GOP certainly opens the door for a democrat takeover.
The problem democrats have is that they don't know how to get people to go to the polls -- they don't promote any burning social issues to get people excited. It's not like there are no issues they could use (minimum living wage, universal healthcare, #blacklivesmatter issues on police violence, free community college, etc), rather it is like they have forgotten what it's like to be an advocate for the people.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-12-2016 12:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 10-13-2016 9:39 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 59 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-13-2016 11:25 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 47 of 892 (792689)
10-13-2016 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by nwr
10-12-2016 9:46 PM


Re: International reactions?
... But using the office of the presidency to conduct a personal vendetta against one's political opponent surely fits.
You mean like invading Iraq on a pretext because Saddam threatened daddy bush?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nwr, posted 10-12-2016 9:46 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 48 of 892 (792690)
10-13-2016 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by nwr
10-12-2016 9:52 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
It may reach an even higher pitch during a Clinton administration, with a women in the oval office.
Most certainly they will if they retain a majority in the house and senate.
The senate is the most likely to fall, so at least appointments can be approved, the house has some systemic issues (gerrymandering), so not as likely.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by nwr, posted 10-12-2016 9:52 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 49 of 892 (792691)
10-13-2016 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Theodoric
10-10-2016 5:17 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well since you claim it exists how about showing it.
The evidence is there in documents, mostly the emails, that show collusion, but I am not interested in converting you -- if you want to pursue the issue, fine, if you want to ignore it and feel cozy warm in ignoring it, also fine. This election has shown me that the vast majority of people are not interested in the fact that our democracy is under siege by the 1% or dealing with social issues, they are much more interested in the behavior of football players. Hillary is bought\colluding, the DNC is bought.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 5:17 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2016 10:12 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 50 of 892 (792692)
10-13-2016 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by GDR
10-10-2016 5:24 PM


Re: PEEPING TOM @ Miss Universe
... What do you mean decades? I can't in my wildest imagination believethat there were EVER two worse candidates. ...
I mean the 50 years (5 decades) that I have personal knowledge of, and this includes two impeachment trials (Nixon and Clinton). Trump would likely be a fast 3rd, and if Hillary\DNC lose the 2018 election (house and senate) we can expect the GOP to play this game again.
We can also expect both to face legal trials if not elected.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 51 of 892 (792695)
10-13-2016 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:52 AM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
The senate is the most likely to fall, so at least appointments can be approved
That is what I am truly hoping for. Because it will be a nice slap in the face to the obstructionist Republicans who refused to consider any candidate. Even when Obama threw them a bone and nominated Merrick Garland.
If Hillary wins and they take over the senate, I would love to see them appoint the most far left individual they can find. Although my instincts tell me that if they the Republicans do lose the senate, they will use their lame duck time frame to rush Garland's nomination through the process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:52 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:08 PM Diomedes has not replied
 Message 68 by xongsmith, posted 10-15-2016 5:15 PM Diomedes has replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(8)
Message 52 of 892 (792696)
10-13-2016 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:44 AM


Re: sigh
RAZD writes:
I'm going to vote for Jill Stein for president in order to see if we can get the Green Party vote count over 5%.
I don't think the race is close down your way, but there's less than 5 percentage points separating the candidates here in New Hampshire. I hope people who live in states where the race is close understand that voting for 3rd party candidates could give Trump a better chance. Even if they're averse to both Donald and Hillary I hope they realize what a disastrous president Trump would be and that Hillary is by far the lesser of two evils.
It often feels to me like half the people in this country have lost their minds. It's gratifying that at least some Trump supporters are abandoning him, but for too many there is apparently no depth of depravity, irresponsibility, deceit or ignorance that could cause them to reconsider. I wouldn't be surprised to see the headline, "Trump supporters undeterred by murder allegations."
Trump seems to me a dangerous combination of Groucho Marx and Adolph Hitler. The country and the world would be left a shambles by a Trump presidency's poor political, economic and military decision making. This deranged person will have his finger on the nuclear button - how can anyone feel comfortable with that?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:44 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-13-2016 11:10 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 64 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 53 of 892 (792698)
10-13-2016 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:59 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
So you got nothing that backs you up. Just as I thought.
This election has shown me that the vast majority of people are not interested in the fact that our democracy is under siege by the 1% or dealing with social issues, they are much more interested in the behavior of football players.
Don't you dare act as if you know what I think or feel. Just because people don't agree with your conspiracy theories does not mean they do not understand the gravity of the issues in this country and presidential race.
Hillary is bought\colluding, the DNC is bought.
Do moneyed interests have excessive influence? Of course. You are making claims of bribery, but provide no support or evidence. Conspiracy theorism is ugly whether it is from the right or the left.
As always, your "holier than thou" attitude is off putting and offensive.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:59 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:26 PM Theodoric has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 54 of 892 (792703)
10-13-2016 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:49 AM


Re: International reactions?
You mean like invading Iraq on a pretext because Saddam threatened daddy bush?
Not quite the same thing as Trump's threat to Clinton.
However, I was opposed to that Iraq invasion from the time that Bush first hinted at it (in a December 2001 speech).

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(5)
Message 55 of 892 (792711)
10-13-2016 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 3:15 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Diomedes writes:
... at least Paul Ryan, who was not enamored with The Donald from the get go, has finally thrown up his hands in indignation and basically shown the middle finger to the Republican nominee.
My guess is that the current distancing from Trump is just a ploy to try to save some House and Senate seats. I doubt that the party "establishment" will learn anything from the Trump fiasco.

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(6)
Message 56 of 892 (792732)
10-13-2016 5:23 PM


Michelle Obama Today in New Hampshire on Trump
This video is also available at YouTube, but this Washington Post version is much higher quality: Michelle Obama’s speech on Donald Trump was remarkable
For anyone who has been waiting for someone to say it in just the right words in just the right way, this is it.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by anglagard, posted 10-13-2016 9:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(1)
Message 57 of 892 (792747)
10-13-2016 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Percy
10-13-2016 5:23 PM


Re: Michelle Obama Today in New Hampshire on Trump
I agree wholeheartedly. The first several minutes were not just a nail in the coffin of the disgusting phenomena that is Trump, it is the six foot hole. I wonder how anyone can justify voting for Trump after this and still show themselves in public.
All people in the USA need to see this speech before voting, contender for best ever.
Edited by anglagard, : present and past tense
Edited by anglagard, : see above

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 892 (792754)
10-13-2016 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
10-13-2016 9:39 AM


Re: sigh
I don't think the race is close down your way, but there's less than 5 percentage points separating the candidates here in New Hampshire.
Does who I'll go vote for matter in whether or not I should vote?

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 892 (792755)
10-13-2016 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by RAZD
10-13-2016 8:44 AM


Re: sigh
I'm going to vote for Jill Stein for president in order to see if we can get the Green Party vote count over 5%.
Why? Why 5?
The problem democrats have is that they don't know how to get people to go to the polls -
Well, they haven't been gettin' me to the polls.
- they don't promote any burning social issues to get people excited. It's not like there are no issues they could use (minimum living wage, universal healthcare, #blacklivesmatter issues on police violence, free community college, etc),
Those issues are 'very unimportant' to me.
rather it is like they have forgotten what it's like to be an advocate for the people.
No shit. Yet the people think they are advocates for them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:44 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2016 11:31 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 60 of 892 (792756)
10-14-2016 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by ringo
10-13-2016 11:52 AM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
My guess is that the current distancing from Trump is just a ploy to try to save some House and Senate seats.
Agreed. Despite what his ego says, it's not all about Trump. A Trump presidency would be a complete and utter disaster. Even though there are those who actually honestly want to vote for him, many of his supporters have their eye on the longer game. Control of Congress. The balance in the US Supreme Court (currently evenly divided between conservatives and "liberals", AKA "the bad guys and the good guys in that order"). For many who will vote "for" Trump, they are actually voting for continued Republican control of Congress and getting conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court. It's like Scotland's choice in the world soccer championship: ABE ("anybody but England"). Only in this election year they're voting for ABC (if I have to explain "C", then you lose points). They (even the Radical Religious Right) are willing to still vote Republican if only for the sake of control of Congress and of the US Supreme Court.
I doubt that the party "establishment" will learn anything from the Trump fiasco.
Actually, they had learned from the Romney fiasco. By performing their postmortem of the 2012 election, they figured out exactly which groups they had to reach and what they had to do to win in 2016.
The problem is that their base disagreed and chose Trump. Not that that outcome was not also aided by the actions of the Republican Party. The Party knew what it needed to do, but still went with its instincts, with its urges. The lesson to be learned from Trump should be the need to vet a candidate and to not be afraid to veto the will of the people.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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