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Author | Topic: Most US Christians Heretics, Evangelicals Hereticalest | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Story here.
Only participants who called the Bible their highest authority, said personal evangelism is important, and indicated that trusting in Jesus’ death on the cross is the only way of salvation, were labeled evangelical. They totaled 586 survey-takers. Everyone expected them to perform better than most Americans. No one expected them to perform worse. Seven in ten evangelicalsmore than the population at largesaid that Jesus was the first being God created. Fifty-six percent agreed that the Holy Spirit is a divine force but not a personal being. They also saw a huge increase in evangelicals (28 percent, up from 9 percent) who indicated that the Third Person of the Trinity is not equal with God the Father or Jesus, a direct contradiction of orthodox Christianity. Still, if they're a bit flaky on minor theological issues like the Trinity, at least they're rock solid on the more important tenets of the faith such as voting Republican.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
On these first 6 questions, I answered this way:1-Not Sure 2-Yes 3-No. Good deeds have nothing to do with salvation. 4-Yes. God is perfect...not simply some fumbling character in a book. 5- Yes. God hears every prayer too 6- Yes. We become the decisions (and actions) we make. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: 4-Yes. God is perfect...not simply some fumbling character in a book. Yes, the ebola virus was the work of pure genius.
5- Yes. God hears every prayer too But chooses to do nothing about them.... Lovely guy.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 737 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
The link (and related links) talks about 2 different issues when it laments ignorance among evangelicals.
The doctrines from creeds (essentially the Church Councils from 325 to 787 A.D) and the Bible itself.
quote: Then a link in the thread lead here.
quote: 2 areas of ignorance. First. They don't understand that the Roman Empire with the papacy (and the Byzantine Empire) determined what they were supposed to believe - through the various councils that Protestants and Catholics (as well as eastern Orthodox) hold everyone to. Second They also don't understand the various diverse books of the Bible and the source of each. The evangelical fundamentalists see it more of an issue of "ignorance of the (entire) Bible", since one spurious document (forged in the name of John or Paul) can be quote mined to superimpose it's definition or description of something on all of the message of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. One shouldn't ever confuse the Church Councils with the teachings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, etc.(aside from the Apostolic Council of Acts 15 which was lead by James the brother of Jesus, but that one is ignored all the time anyway, Nicea is seen as the "first one" (or first consequential or important one) it seems.SIDE NOTE Catholics argue that Peter lead it), but the issue of Biblical illiteracy is a real interesting issue. Bart Ehrman commented on his (overwhelmingly/entirely Christian)students on a DVD I have, and it was interesting.
quote: One almost doesn't know where to begin. Fundamentalist preachers just love seeing surveys (and comments like the one from Ehrman) like this though. It causes them (preachers and evangelists) to have a cause to "teach people the truth about our great" religion "that we have failed to learn properly about" and to speak ever more boldly in the (what they claim to be the)name of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. even more rigorously. I see it as an evidence of people being shoehorned into compliance by a theologically imposed set of creeds and doctrines - held up by the state - for the last 2000 years, which never would have been possible if people could think for themselves. Not that people think too much or too hard (that's obvious). But there would clearly be diverse opinion, and a very diverse "Christianity" unlike what we have now. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Fun fact, polls by the Public Religion Research Institute show that only 27% of Americans think that God controls the outcome of sporting events, but 56% of Americans think he controls everything.
In related news, it turns out that at least 29% of Americans don't know what "everything" means.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
My Answers? 7) Disagree. None are righteous. 8) Disagree. God knows how we are. 9) Disagree, though technically yes. Damnation is a wee bit strong for running a red light. 10) Agree. God gave human authors inspiration for scripture. 11)Agree, but if the person has the Holy Spirit, they will interpret largely the same as every other Spirit filled reader. 12) Agree, but God never makes anyone do anything. We can freely choose to fail and end up damned. Why on earth would anyone want to fail, however?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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The Bible was written for each person to interpret as he or she chooses 11)Agree, but if the person has the Holy Spirit, they will interpret largely the same as every other Spirit filled reader. 'largely the same'? As evidenced by the copious numbers of Christian religions that exist, it appears that there is far too much vagueness with regards to the scripture and how it is being interpreted. Consider the commandment of keeping the Sabbath day holy. Most Christians nowadays honor the Sabbath on Sunday. Yet anyone that knows the history of the scripture (and speaks a little Greek like I do) knows that 'Sabbath' is from the Greek word 'Σάββατο' (pronounced 'savvato'); which means 'Saturday'. So if the vast majority of Christians are now honoring the wrong day, that seems like a pretty big snafu in my mind.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I was always taught that the word sabbath means rest. Thus, if one is commanded or even encouraged to rest one day a week, it can be a day of ones choosing.
Sabbath Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
I was always taught that the word sabbath means rest. The root derivations of sabbath are unclear; but as I noted, sabbath is associated with a specific day of the week. Which is unequivocally 'Saturday' as evidenced by the Greek translation and the fact that when looking at a weekly calendar, Saturday is the last day of the week; from left to right, the week starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday.
Thus, if one is commanded or even encouraged to rest one day a week, it can be a day of ones choosing. If you look at the commandment, it states the following:
quote: That to me indicates that god is referencing a specific day and asking people to keep that day holy. More details in Exodus are as follows:
quote: I don't see any interpretations indicating that the day is variable. It seems to be stipulating that a specific day is honored as the sabbath. And therein lies my point: if a book is so vague and open to interpretation, then how can it be a viable source of any ethical or moral standards? Even the commandments themselves are vague.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The root derivations of sabbath are unclear; but as I noted, sabbath is associated with a specific day of the week. Which is unequivocally 'Saturday' as evidenced by the Greek translation and the fact that when looking at a weekly calendar, Saturday is the last day of the week; from left to right, the week starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday. Do you believe that the current calendar has some kind of continuity dating back to the time God commanded us to keep the Sabbath holy, or back to the creation of the universe? I personally find either idea difficult to believe. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Which is unequivocally 'Saturday' as evidenced by the Greek translation and the fact that when looking at a weekly calendar, Saturday is the last day of the week; from left to right, the week starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday
Not in Spanish speaking countries. The week starts on Monday and ends on Sunday.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
Do you believe that the current calendar has some kind of continuity dating back to the time God commanded us to keep the Sabbath holy, or back to the creation of the universe? I personally find either idea difficult to believe. I actually don't believe any of this; I am an atheist. The point I was attempting to make is the level of interpretation that is apparent with regards to the bible and how believers essentially just cherry-pick what works best for them. Despite the fact that many also deal in absolute terms with regards to other areas of the bible.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The point I was attempting to make is the level of interpretation that is apparent with regards to the bible and how believers essentially just cherry-pick what works best for them. The point I am making is that you've chosen a bad example to make your own point. There is simply no way to associate Sunday in the current Gregorian calendar with any particular day commanded in the Bible. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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Not in Spanish speaking countries. The week starts on Monday and ends on Sunday. Correct. And that is due to the fact that most are Roman Catholic. And while it is unclear, most agree that Pope Sylvester changed it around 300 AD. Note that most in the Jewish faith honor the sabbath as Saturday. As do Seventh Day Adventists. Once again, back to my original point: with this much interpretation and ambiguity, why do so many believers deal in absolutes when they themselves can't agree?
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phat writes:
quote: So why did god directly state that he made a mistake in killing everybody in the flood and promise Noah that he will never, ever do that again? And it's even earlier. God creates Adam and then sees that "it is not good that the man should be alone." And instead of making a female human, creates all the other animals to be his help meet. So no, god is not perfect. By his own admission and actions, it is trivially shown that he isn't. Unless, of course, one is of the opinion that the Bible isn't actually an account of god.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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