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Author Topic:   The Clinton Email Controversy
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 56 (792881)
10-14-2016 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
10-14-2016 8:35 AM


(1) unsecured classified information and (2) the coverup
The government's position is that classified information shouldn't exist on unclassified systems, but where did Hillary's received emails come from, and where did the sent emails go? Looking at just a few of Hillary's emails (WSJ Clinton Email Search), many were being received from and sent to email addresses at the domain state.gov, which is an unclassified network. All indications are that the State Department uses this network for most email communication, and this practice did not suddenly begin when Clinton became Secretary of State but must also have been the practice under Condoleezza Rice, who was not herself an email user
... Her unique fault was not that she used unclassified networks for classified information, for that practice was ongoing and probably continues to this day, but that she used her own email server, thereby exposing the State Department to potential security breaches they were unaware of.
To my mind there are two issues of relevance about the Clinton e-mails:
(1) unsecured classified information was on a private server -- there are several people that put classified information on a private device and were then prosecuted for breaking protocol, losing their classified status and being black-listed for ever seeing classified information ever again.
So there is the appearance of "Well it was Hillary, so it is okay" and that laws don't apply to the big name people.
(2) the coverup -- this was the issue that brought Nixon down, the stonewalling and the coverup. This is also why she has such high unfavorable ratings: instead of being transparent and forthcoming they tried to hide what had happened and pretend that it was all approved sop etc etc.
Same for the bank speeches (which we now have bits and pieces of from Podestas hacked emails), again pretending that it was nothing special (in spite of the high $$ fee). So we now know that she has one "private face" and one "public face" on issues, confirming that she is not open and fully disclosing her positions on a number of topics, from bank regulation to TPP to fracking, etc. One for raising funds and one for getting votes?
Hillary has so much baggage from their previous occupation of the white house, this only adds to her perceived problems with trustworthiness.
And I find it somewhat amusing that the first time around they blamed a "vast right-wing conspiracy" and this time it's the Russians -- even to saying that the Russians are organizing protests to fracking and pipelines.
Really? All those Native Americans protesting #NoDAPL are Russians?
There's always a scape-goat to blame ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 10-14-2016 8:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 17 of 56 (792882)
10-14-2016 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
10-14-2016 9:56 AM


But wasn't her server set up by the Secret Service? Aren't they involved in securing US secrets?
The server may have been set up by the SS for Bill's use. The person who set it up for Hillary's use was not SS:
IT worker who helped set up Hillary Clinton email server gets immunity - CBS News
quote:
WASHINGTON -- Bryan Pagliano, the State Department IT staffer who helped set up and maintain Hillary Clinton's private email server in her Chappaqua, N.Y. home in 2009, has been granted immunity by the Justice Department, CBS News confirmed Tuesday. Pagliano is cooperating with the FBI in its investigation.
The FBI obtained Pagliano's cooperation, the Washington Post first reported, citing a senior law enforcement official. The Post also suggested that granting immunity to Pagliano is a sign "the FBI investigation into possible criminal wrongdoing is progressing." Pagliano was paid separately by the Clintons to set up the server before he was hired by the State Department.
It wasn't intended for Sec of State use when set up for Bill.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 18 of 56 (792958)
10-17-2016 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
10-14-2016 5:54 PM


Re: (1) unsecured classified information and (2) the coverup
RAZD writes:
(1) unsecured classified information was on a private server -- there are several people that put classified information on a private device and were then prosecuted for breaking protocol, losing their classified status and being black-listed for ever seeing classified information ever again.
The first question that comes to mind is to ask if these other people just discussed classified information in emails, or if they disseminated documents that were marked as classified.
Added in much later edit:
Here is a decent website comparing the false equivalency between what Clinton did and what others have done with respect to mishandling classified information.
Right-Wing Media Run With Another Baseless Comparison With Clinton Emails | Media Matters for America
Same for the bank speeches (which we now have bits and pieces of from Podestas hacked emails), again pretending that it was nothing special (in spite of the high $$ fee).
What other presidential candidate has ever been expected to release transcripts of speeches made behind closed doors at a fund raising event?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 19 of 56 (792969)
10-17-2016 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by AZPaul3
10-14-2016 1:18 PM


To quote him....."It will be YUUUGE!"

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 20 of 56 (792977)
10-18-2016 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
10-14-2016 5:54 PM


RAZD writes:
To my mind there are two issues of relevance about the Clinton e-mails:
(1) unsecured classified information was on a private server -- there are several people that put classified information on a private device and were then prosecuted for breaking protocol, losing their classified status and being black-listed for ever seeing classified information ever again.
Yeah, then some things happen. For example, for me (not involved in the US govt) , the official Government server stopped functioning. Couldn't get service. For days on end. Yet, we had to do the job. Every day without official service cost us millions.
The privately owned server worked, so I sent the info through that.
So, maybe, the idea is to improve govt. services to an acceptable standard?

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 Message 21 by ringo, posted 10-18-2016 12:05 PM Pressie has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 21 of 56 (793007)
10-18-2016 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Pressie
10-18-2016 7:26 AM


Pressie writes:
So, maybe, the idea is to improve govt. services to an acceptable standard?
The Americans have no incentive to do that. It would just undermine their aversion to "big government".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Pressie, posted 10-18-2016 7:26 AM Pressie has replied

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 22 of 56 (793030)
10-19-2016 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
10-18-2016 12:05 PM


Yes, that's what I got from all of that.
If the Government service is pretty crappy, it can't be improved. At all. Big Government and all that. No more money spent. Voted down in the House. So, no messages can be sent. Then claim to have attempted 600 phone calls in a few hours (impossible to do). Still not going through.
If using private servers (which actually work most of the time) are used, it's supposed to be illegal.
What to do, what to do?
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(7)
Message 23 of 56 (793053)
10-19-2016 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Pressie
10-19-2016 7:13 AM


If using private servers (which actually work most of the time) are used, it's supposed to be illegal.
That only applies to Hillary Clinton. For anybody else, it's fine.
Everything that Hillary touches becomes evil, by virtue of her touching it.
At least that's what the political right are telling us.
Me? I'm voting for Hillary in this election.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Pressie, posted 10-20-2016 6:39 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2016 12:50 AM nwr has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 24 of 56 (793069)
10-20-2016 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
10-19-2016 12:45 PM


nwr writes:
Me? I'm voting for Hillary in this election.
Good on ye. I'm not American and never permanantly lived in the USA, ever. I' ve only been in America on and off for around 9 months, total.
The last time I visited (for a conference) ended quite a few months ago.
Due to te fact that America is the largest economy and the President really can blow up everyone else in the world, I think that Clinton is the best way to go. She's not perfect by any means. She lies and is unlikeable and does things to get more money for herself and all that, but at least we know she's quite a stable person. Unlike her wacky opponent.
If I lived there and could vote, I would have pinched my nose and done the same. The lesser of two evils, I guess.
Trump=Really, really crazy and lies all the time and all that. Can't even try to be calm.
Clinton= Unlikeable, lies too, but is more realistic.
I feel safer with her thinking about making that doomsday call or not making it.
Go Hillary. (Oops, if a foreigner says it, those Republicans would use it against her). So, I retract my comment.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 25 of 56 (793333)
10-26-2016 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
10-19-2016 12:45 PM


That only applies to Hillary Clinton. For anybody else, it's fine.
Everything that Hillary touches becomes evil, by virtue of her touching it.
If ANYBODY else does the things she does, they go to prison for far less.
Voter fraud, the passing/receiving of unsecured emails, the political assassination of Bernie Sanders, intentionally and knowingly inciting riots at Trump rallies, her stonewalling of investigations, The Clinton Foundation racketeering and campaign financing, etc, etc... These aren't isolated incidents. This is material evidence of an unscrupulous degenerate criminal who will do anything for power. Her level of corruption is staggering.
I'm voting for Hillary in this election.
It's ironic. Everything Democrats despise about Republicans is extant in Hillary Clinton. If beating Trump is the ultimate goal, and I believe it is, because I cannot imagine this many registered Democrats willfully ignoring Bernie Sanders without this reason in mind, then you will have to accept the consequences of that vote.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Percy, posted 10-26-2016 10:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 27 by Taq, posted 10-26-2016 10:40 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 29 by nwr, posted 10-26-2016 4:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 30 by Pressie, posted 10-28-2016 8:24 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 26 of 56 (793348)
10-26-2016 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2016 12:50 AM


This thread is about the Clinton email controversy. Maybe you could repost this over at The 2016 United States Presidential Election.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2016 12:50 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 27 of 56 (793349)
10-26-2016 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2016 12:50 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:
If ANYBODY else does the things she does, they go to prison for far less.
Your first job is to find someone who has done far less and who then went to jail. From all reports, Colin Powell also did what HRC did, and no one is putting him in jail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2016 12:50 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 10-26-2016 11:45 AM Taq has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 28 of 56 (793353)
10-26-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Taq
10-26-2016 10:40 AM


Your first job is to find someone who has done far less and who then went to jail. From all reports, Colin Powell also did what HRC did, and no one is putting him in jail.
Not quite, but more to the point:
N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets - The New York Times
The latest in a long line of relatively unknown people that have been found to have classified material on their private computers.
More "famous" people would be Snowden and Manning ... they sent the information they had to wikileaks, but one of the charges against them is stealing classified information -- ie having it on their computers.
There was another instance that I ran across earlier this year, where the guy did nothing with the information and was still prosecuted, but do not have the link saved.
It has happened, it continues to happen, it just isn't high profile.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 29 of 56 (793369)
10-26-2016 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2016 12:50 AM


You've been drinking too much of the Trump Kool Aid.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2016 12:50 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 30 of 56 (793405)
10-28-2016 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2016 12:50 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:
If ANYBODY else does the things she does, they go to prison for far less.
Not me. I got a huge bonus because we could finish the contract ahead of schedule and then started another job. Getting paid for two contracts simultaneously. e-mails. Data. Reports. Publications. The works. All due to efficient communication systems. Private servers tend to work more reliably than the others.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2016 12:50 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-31-2016 9:58 PM Pressie has replied

  
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