Law enforcement has finally made their move. Ammon Bundy, theleader of the armed militia that took over the Malheur Wildlife Refugea few weeks ago, wastaken into custody by federal agents.Eightmilitants have been arrestedfollowing a traffic stop; two have been shot; details are still sketchy at the moment.
The group was apparently ambushed on their way toacommunity meeting in the town of John Day with Grant County Sheriff Glen Palmer and other citizens, who were planning on telling them to leave —and not for the first time.The highway has been closed off. AnAirLink medivac helicopterhas been dispatched to scene, indicating that at least one has serious injuries.KTVZ noted thatunconfirmed police scanner reports indicated the pilots were advised armed officers would be meeting the helicopter when it returns to Bend, indicating that it was a militant that was wounded.
Actually, the Grant County sheriff, Glen Palmer is a supporter of the Bundys as is the Baker County Sheriff Travis Ash. Ash is also a posse comitatus wingnut.
This does not surprise me, and it explains the hands-off policy of local officials. It seems a lot of police officers and comand\management people are aligned with questionable associations -- see
It would be interesting to see them do the same with militia groups. Strange that a volunteer organization is doing something that should be done by the FBI ... unless the FBI ... /conspiracy
If they are convicted felons I would think not. A silver lining. As long as they don't let them plea-bargain their way out of this. Hopefully they will be charged with more than they have been arrested on.
Presumably a grand jury will be convened to determine if the evidence is sufficient to proceed with trials, and they could consider a number of different charges not in the works yet -- as in the grand jury in texas returned indictments of the Planned Parenthood video hoaxters/frauds.
The FBI has released video tonight of the shooting death of LaVoy Finicum to dispel any rumors that he had had his hands up and was trying to surrender to police. The FBI’s Special Agent in Charge Gregory T. Bretzing held a press conference to explain the events surrounding the arrest of Ammon Bundy (and others), along with the fatal shooting of LaVoy Finicum. Finicum can be seen running from the initial stop in his pick-up truck, with passengers Ryan Payne, Shawna Cox and a woman the FBI declined to identify. The video was captured by aerial camera and shows Finicum driving into a snow back, barely missing a law enforcement officer. He immediately jumped from the vehicle, at first with his hands up as he yelled at law enforcement, but then clearly reaching into his pocket multiple times, where the FBI says he did have a gun (update: a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.)
The video can be viewed below, with key parts from 8:00 to 9:35 mark (graphic content):
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And starting at the 8 minute mark when Finicum drives off from the traffic stop (preceding video is rather boring):
He puts his hands down and reaches into his pockets before being shot.
The short answer is that they shouldn't, but it would be difficult to convince them that they are delusional, so
quote:It’s the question that’s popping up all over Facebook. It’s also the question that proves the militia movement, as it is today, is doomed. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same behavior and expect different results. Static positions and stand-offs are referred to as last stands because when they are over, the people involved are either in a cage or a grave. This article may upset many within the movement, but it needs to be said before more life is wasted.
The stand-off scenario is just a symptom of a disease spreading like cancer through the militias. Some in the militia movement have taken to flocking around those with a flare for racist rhetoric, over-the-top Facebook leadership, and sensationalist behavior. They follow the pronouncements of these individuals and exist inside an echo chamber where those who disagree are shut out. All of these things are crippling to a movement attempting to establish itself.
And you have to be relatively stupid, imho, to create a stand-off situation for petulant reasons.
quote:Several of the organizations which are seen as leaders within the movement suggested the US Government was going to use Delta Force or some other elite military unit to attack those in Oregon. It’s sensationalist. It’s designed to convince the reader the US government needs to deploy the US military’s most elite unit to deal with a group of men who didn’t think far enough ahead to bring food when they volunteered to place themselves under siege. Elite units are not needed to take down people who willing pin themselves down and allow their opposition to choose the time and place of the battle. Any local SWAT team will be able to handle that.
The echo chamber that has formed around the militia movement is staggering. Dissenting voices are removed. A person needs to conform or they are shut out.
The end result of these four critical issues in the movement is a group of people led by the less intelligent, inflamed to anger by those profiting from it, encouraged by organizations that don’t have a clue what they are talking about, and lacking an outside voice to provide a reality check. Does this sound like a cohesive paramilitary organization?
To me it looks like the militia "movement" is just an excuse to walk around with big guns and play war games, looking for some excuse to create a standoff but in the end not achieving a single thing of note.
They -- and the closely related "open carry" nuts -- may achieve one thing in the end ... ironically: the banning of assault/war weapons to protect people from this insanity.
quote:BUSTED: Rancher and right-wing tax-dodging darling Cliven Bundy arrested in Oregon
EvC Forum: Information Bundy, the scofflaw Nevada rancher whose dispute over grazing fees led to a 2014 armed showdown with the federal government, was arrested late Wednesday in Oregon as he went to lend support to armed militants holed up at a wildlife preserve.
The 74-year-old Bundy was charged with conspiracy to interfere with a federal officer the same federal charge two of his sons face in connection with the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
With only one dead (by cop suicide) and most of the offenders in jail, charged with several crimes.
They'll be occupying federal land for a while now.
So they lose their rights to carry arms, their "cause" deflates and more.
Will the government take Bundy land for failure to pay taxes and other fees? Not out of the question I would think -- there are laws allowing the seizure of property used during committing a crime ...
But this is part of a larger problem in America -- people that are "low information" and people that are "bad information" purveyors making up stuff to fill the space in their heads.
This is why education is critical for an informed population capable of making valid conclusions from objective empirical evidence, instead of being hoodwinked by the latest snake-oil salesman.
So I'm glad this was not another RubyRidge\Waco fiasco.
quote:Jury nullification is a finding by a trial jury in favour of the defendant, in contradiction to the jury's belief about the facts of the case. This may happen in both civil and criminal trials. In a civil trial, a jury nullifies by finding a defendant not liable, even though members of the jury may believe the defendant is liable. In a criminal trial, a jury nullifies by acquitting a defendant, even though the members of the jury may believe that the defendant did the illegal act, but they do not believe he/she should be punished for it. This may occur when members of the jury disagree with the law the defendant has been charged with breaking, or believe that the law should not be applied in that particular case. ...
Interesting, so the law is on trial rather than the defendants.
Re: Bundys violators of Constitutional rights of all other citizens ...
As a member of the public, they also own that land.
As a member of the public, the only "own" a share of that land, and the land is operated by the government for the benefit of all the shareholders = all the citizens of the USofA.
They can go to shareholder meetings (elections and town halls) to voice their thoughts on how things should be managed. A gun is not a vote.
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