Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,422 Year: 3,679/9,624 Month: 550/974 Week: 163/276 Day: 3/34 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 211 of 892 (793397)
10-27-2016 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Percy
10-27-2016 5:16 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
More irregular stuff in Nevada:
Two native American tribes sued Nevada earlier this month because its members had to travel one hundred miles from the reservation in order to get to an early voting location. After the state declined to help them, a court ordered that the tribe members be accommodated by setting up a satellite voting station.
After the decision, tribes who were required to travel in excess of two hundred miles requested the same accommodation but were turned down by the state who claimed that it was now too late to accommodate them.
https://thinkprogress.org/...-denial-7e0315de3810#.pqf3kcco4
quote:
On Wednesday, Republican Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske said no.
Given that your letter reached the Office of the Secretary of State less than 24 hours prior to the scheduled two week period for early voting, we regret that we are unable to accommodate your request, she wrote in an October 26 letter to Vinton Hawley, the chairman of the Inter-Tribal Council of Nevada.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix quote box.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Percy, posted 10-27-2016 5:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 212 of 892 (793414)
10-28-2016 12:00 PM


We have this same thing going on in Canada - governments tearing out their hair at the idea that some people who want to vote may be ineligible.
I say, if people want to vote, let them vote. I'd rather see a thousand illegitimate votes than prevent one legitimate one.
In Canada, we used to vote without even showing ID. Now you practically have to give a DNA sample. No wonder voter turnout is declining.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 213 of 892 (793415)
10-28-2016 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Percy
10-27-2016 5:16 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
So Lawson found irregularities in voter registration forms by checking against the state database that she says is also full of irregularities. Nice work!
And of course, wait for the last minute to do anything about it.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Percy, posted 10-27-2016 5:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 214 of 892 (793432)
10-28-2016 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by RAZD
10-27-2016 3:22 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
The fix is in for Indiana ...
also:
Texas
Nebraska
North Carolina
Florida
Ohio
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Colorado
Arizona
Maine
Georgia
New Hampshire
Tennessee
all have implemented state laws and local level tactics targeted to suppress voter participation by college, black, latino, asian and other minority and progressive communities.
Surprise, surprise! These are all Republican controlled states.
Can't have liberals, progressives and all those others voting when they are demographically known to prefer Democrats over Republicans.
Can anyone show any like efforts in Democrat-controlled states to disenfranchise any segment of American voters?
Yes, the fix is in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by RAZD, posted 10-27-2016 3:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 10-28-2016 5:10 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 216 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-28-2016 7:05 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 217 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-28-2016 11:25 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 219 by RAZD, posted 10-29-2016 8:58 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 215 of 892 (793433)
10-28-2016 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by AZPaul3
10-28-2016 4:43 PM


Local experience with early voting
Locally there is a very active and seemingly successful effort to register college and first time voters particularly in the Hispanic community. Voting itself is electronic and in either English or Spanish and when I went to early voting the polling place had absolutely no signs of active on site marketing, few posters evident anywhere on the grounds, polite bilingual staff, more machines than voters present, no line but a continuous stream with regular turnover and the biggest issue was the machine that printed out the labels to put in the register ran out and had to get a new roll inserted. That took over a minute.
The ballot itself was set up to allow straight party voting as well as individual selection within each race. One nice feature was a selection for large type display for the visually impaired. First time I had seen that option.
I must say it was the most hassle free voting I have experienced in the over 50 elections I've experienced.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin One not On
Edited by jar, : Fix sub-title.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 10-28-2016 4:43 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by AZPaul3, posted 10-29-2016 7:35 AM jar has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 216 of 892 (793436)
10-28-2016 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by AZPaul3
10-28-2016 4:43 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
Reference(s) please.
...Minnesota...
While the Republicans might have too much power in the legislature, we do have a Democrat governor and executive branch in general.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 10-28-2016 4:43 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4411
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 217 of 892 (793437)
10-28-2016 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by AZPaul3
10-28-2016 4:43 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
all have implemented state laws and local level tactics targeted to suppress voter participation by college, black, latino, asian and other minority and progressive communities.
Another state is Alabama......closing all the DMV offices in poor areas so acceptable IDs are difficult or impossible to obtain.
The GOP is so classy......they can't win with out cheating.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 10-28-2016 4:43 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 218 of 892 (793440)
10-29-2016 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by jar
10-28-2016 5:10 PM


Re: Local experience with early voting
I must say it was the most hassle free voting I have experienced in the over 50 elections I've experienced.
Excellent. I, as well, had quite a relaxing experience voting this year as I stopped off at a neighbor's for conversation and coffee after dropping my ballot in the mail.
So, it can be done.
The question is why can't this be the experience of all American voters regardless of race, creed, color, location, education or shoe size? Why are so many forced to jump through bureaucratic hoops wound in red tape deliberately designed to foil their attempt to exercise their franchise?
The answer appears to be: Republicans.
Why is this allowed in this country?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 10-28-2016 5:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 10-29-2016 9:46 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 219 of 892 (793445)
10-29-2016 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by AZPaul3
10-28-2016 4:43 PM


Re: Pence state rigging the election
Can anyone show any like efforts in Democrat-controlled states to disenfranchise any segment of American voters?
Every state that has gerrymandered districts is using their power to stay in power, which is basically what this kind of rigging is all about.
So Massachusetts would be an example for you.
Yes, the fix is in.
And the system is rigged to maintain the existing status quo power structure.
Republicans are getting more and more desperate though, because they are losing and time is against them: demographics are changing to more liberal populations.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 10-28-2016 4:43 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by xongsmith, posted 11-02-2016 1:47 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 220 of 892 (793447)
10-29-2016 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by AZPaul3
10-29-2016 7:35 AM


Re: Local experience with early voting
AZPaul3 writes:
The question is why can't this be the experience of all American voters regardless of race, creed, color, location, education or shoe size? Why are so many forced to jump through bureaucratic hoops wound in red tape deliberately designed to foil their attempt to exercise their franchise?
The answer appears to be: Republicans.
Actually, the answer seems to be "the party in power". Democrats have been every bit as guilty as Republicans when they are the party in power. Liberals have been every bit as guilty as Conservatives of creating barriers to the democratic process.
The difference right now is that power to control and influence the Democratic Process is held by a group of super conservative Republicans.
But I remember the Democratic South and the Democratic political machines in Chicago and Texas and also the Liberal Weatherman and Students for a Democratic Society and the Days of Rage and "The Elections Don't Mean ShitVote Where the Power IsOur Power Is In The Street" and the Democratically controlled police in Greensboro that held the police back while labor organizers and voting registers and Doctors and members of the American Communist Party were gunned down.
The answer is that our courts have failed to support democracy and instead allowed things like you describe to continue; but it is not anything new and not limited to Republicans but rather seems a characteristic of US democracy in action.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by AZPaul3, posted 10-29-2016 7:35 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by NoNukes, posted 10-29-2016 2:00 PM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 221 of 892 (793452)
10-29-2016 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
10-29-2016 9:46 AM


Re: Local experience with early voting
The difference right now is that power to control and influence the Democratic Process is held by a group of super conservative Republicans.
I am going to disagree in part with this summary. It is true of course that Democratic politicians are no more or less evil than their Republican counter parts. However the tactics employed by the two sides over the last 40-50 years, a time which includes both parties having their times at the top, suggests that one party can legitimately claim to have most of the high road. Over that time, the Republican party has consistently been the party of white folks only, and the Democratic party, has for the most part, not played the game of trying to prevent white folks from voting. Yes Democrats have gerrymanded when they have control of state legislatures, but they have not actively attempted to prevent folks from voting using anything like the tactics that Republicans currently use. Instead they have generally relied on things like voter registration drives that result in more folks voting rather than fewer. They have attempted to put in place early voting, and easy registration. If I recall correctly, the Texas Republican Party platform expresses opposition to 'motor voter' registration in which folks get registered at the same time that they get their driver's licenses or carry out other state business.
Not denying the history jar cites, but it simply is not correct that during current times, each of the parties in power repress voting with equal alacrity. Republicans are fairly tarred with that brush. Only one group of folks refuses to restore voting rights to former felons because they are afraid of who they will vote for. Only one group of folks refuses to allow representation of folks in DC because they are largely democratic voters. I understand that the reasons for that difference are not altruistic, but the battle of tactics of impeding voting versus the tactic of trying to include more folks presents one side, and one side only, in a poor light.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 10-29-2016 9:46 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-29-2016 2:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 222 of 892 (793453)
10-29-2016 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by NoNukes
10-29-2016 2:00 PM


Re: Local experience with early voting
I might be convinced if you dropped it down to the last 10 years or maybe even 20 years but cannot swallow a span of 40-50 years.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by NoNukes, posted 10-29-2016 2:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by NoNukes, posted 10-29-2016 10:53 PM jar has not replied
 Message 224 by Rrhain, posted 10-29-2016 11:19 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 892 (793461)
10-29-2016 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by jar
10-29-2016 2:46 PM


Re: Local experience with early voting
I might be convinced if you dropped it down to the last 10 years or maybe even 20 years but cannot swallow a span of 40-50 years.
Were not all of those incidents you cited things that occurred on the order of 40 years ago? I might yield to you ten years of the difference, but certainly not 30.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-29-2016 2:46 PM jar has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 224 of 892 (793462)
10-29-2016 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by jar
10-29-2016 2:46 PM


Re: Local experience with early voting
jar writes:
quote:
I might be convinced if you dropped it down to the last 10 years or maybe even 20 years but cannot swallow a span of 40-50 years.
Have you forgotten the Civil Rights Era? Have you forgotten Nixon's Southern Strategy?
When you claim:
Democrats have been every bit as guilty as Republicans when they are the party in power. Liberals have been every bit as guilty as Conservatives of creating barriers to the democratic process.
You are deliberately distorting history. Yes, the Dixiecrats were a significant part of the disenfranchisement of minorities in the US.
And they all went to the Republican party.
In short:
Logical error: False equivalency.
Try again.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-29-2016 2:46 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 225 of 892 (793472)
10-30-2016 7:46 AM


The Burning of the Democracy
An unlikely and unplanned event dictated the flow of political power in pre-WWII Germany. Might this latest email revelation be as fateful as the destruction of the Reichstag? A little alarmist, I know, but the parallels *are* alarming: a populist demogogue with contempt for true democracy who is willing to mold the institutions of government to his will takes advantage of circumstances to achieve complete power. True, Trump has much more of the ignorant buffoon about him, but he's a determined and persistent buffoon who's proven very effective at getting his way.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by frako, posted 10-30-2016 7:57 AM Percy has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024