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Author Topic:   Can the Christian God exist without the Bible?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 106 (667794)
07-12-2012 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
07-12-2012 8:38 AM


Re: God exists or He does not
jar writes:
But the only support for the assertion that the Jewish God created the universe are the stories in the Bible.
If those stories did not exist then could that God exist?
Remind me of the construct again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 07-12-2012 8:38 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 07-12-2012 11:43 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 106 (667798)
07-12-2012 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
07-12-2012 11:43 AM


Re: God exists or He does not
Unless of course Jesus really was sent by GOD to instruct mankind.
You have taught me a lot about belief through our personal discussions, and I have changed many of my views because of you.
One stumbling block that was never reconciled between us is the idea that GOD can reach humans so as to be understood. You maintained that we likely would never have the capability to comprehend or understand GOD, but I clung to the idea that even if an ant can never understand a human, a human ---if capable of sending an ant to the ants---would bridge the gap. Likewise GOD, though infinitely more powerful and complex than any myth can convey, sent His Son that we may understand GOD through a human. You may argue that we are responsible for our works and deeds and that knowing GOD is irrelevant, but in my belief, GOD became human so that HE and us could commune.
jar writes:
If those stories did not exist then the "Christian God" would never have been created
Assuming, of course, that the Christian God was and is close to GOD in definition. If it were entirely human imagination, I could see your point, but if divine communion and relationship between humans and GOD were possible, the Christian/Jewish God would be close to the reality of GOD.
Edited by Phat, : added

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 07-12-2012 11:43 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 07-12-2012 12:02 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 101 of 106 (793621)
11-02-2016 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
09-21-2005 9:11 AM


Re: No Bible? Know God. Know whatImean?
jar writes:
GOD, the creator, exists or does not exist. The Christian God, or any God, can never be more than some minor reflection of GOD. Religion is no more than a creation of man and can never equal the actuality.
The Map is not the Territory.
In this old topic, I am reminded of what our old admin Ben said:
Ben writes:
Can the Christian God be known, in all meanings of the word (i.e. experience in 'meeting' God, in knowing all about God, in knowing what God expects of you, etc), without the Bible?
I maintain that GOD can be known through Jesus Christ. Critics may point out that my belief originates from the writings and bias of humans.
The counterargument is that scripture is inspired by God and not by the motive, means, and opportunity of human authors.
Moose writes:
At a basic level humans transmit ideas through time by storing them in some physical medium (books, cds, brains etc). The Bible is just a medium of storage.
Galatians 1:11 writes:
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin.
2 Peter 1:21 writes:
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
jar writes:
What is considered Scripture will depend on which sub-set of Christianity you happen to belong to.
So are you saying in essense that even if Scripture came directly from GOD, humans would still pick and choose what they wanted to believe?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 09-21-2005 9:11 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 11-02-2016 7:32 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 102 of 106 (793622)
11-02-2016 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
08-02-2012 1:45 PM


In Perpetuity
ringo writes:
A "perpetual Jesus" who lived forever, sitting down with publicans and sinners of every generation would be more effective than a dusty book.
Perhaps we are extensions of Him. In essence, out of each generation, a small group of people not only sit down with the publicans and sinners but they feed the hungry, clothe the naked and comfort the sorrowful .
You say that doing the works proves the inner presence. I say that while you are right, inner wisdom results from prayer, study, meditation and communion.
If you did good works on behalf of Joes Bar & Grill, the message you were selling would be quite different from the message coming from someone who advertised personal relationship with God versus simply warm fuzzies and full bellies around a bar.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 08-02-2012 1:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 11-02-2016 4:42 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 105 of 106 (793662)
11-03-2016 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
11-02-2016 7:32 PM


Learning On The Job
jar writes:
Come on Phat. If it were not for the Bible you would have never even heard of Jesus.
  • How did people hear of Him before there was a Bible?
  • Do you believe that GOD raised Him from the dead?
  • What sense does it make for a charge to be doing for others without an inner transformation?
    Why would you want to be the same old cuss you always were?
  • When Jesus said "feed my sheep" was He only talking about taters and beef stew?
    What other ways might a creative servant enlighten you? Would you resist an invitation to kneel at the altar with them? Would the old cuss want to keep his own free will?
    what I am saying is that if Scripture came directly from God, God could not get the story straight or tell the truth or be consistent or hide its ignorance or even pretend to be fair or just or moral.
    Do you see God as a bumbling Deity learning on the job? How could such a fallible Being create all seen and unseen?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 104 by jar, posted 11-02-2016 7:32 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 106 by jar, posted 11-03-2016 9:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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