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Author | Topic: The Church And Sexual Expression | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
There has been an ages old debate among people who call themselves Christian regarding the normalcy of same gender attraction and what it means for the church today. Recently I saw a video by a man whom resonated with my inner spirit.
Update Your Browser | Facebook This Pastor emphasizes the need for the church to recognize the unique fit of each type of individual in society and in life. His basic belief is that there are ways for homosexuals to express themselves in the church and in society at large that Christianity has rejected, repressed, and villified. Check out the video and give me your comments. Faith & Belief, or perhaps social issues.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
First of all, neither one of you has gotten the basic point of the video.
There is no need to express attraction through sexual expression and, even if it can be labeled as sexual, the form of the expression can involve intimacy that need not culminate in sexual release. There is no biological need to do so. A hug can carry far more emotional weight. Women have taught us this for years. Sometimes they just want to be held and cuddled---as does everyone, essentially. My point is not to villify what our society terms as gay. The legal and social freedoms of human individuals has now extended to include all sexual preferences, and I'm not arguing against the legal rights. What I am suggesting is what the Pastor has suggested in this video--that there is a different role for same gender attraction than merely being encouraged to biologically "love" your spouse...and if a spouse of the same gender is the only solution. It is my contention that same gender attraction can be used as a tool for a deeper love---such as Jesus has and had, that can be used to nurture the church as a group---and that traditional religion has been shooting itself in the foot for not recognizing the role that can be played by such individuals.
What churches and religions are NOT free to do is try to impose their rules on non-members. And no one has suggested this. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Why on earth you think anyone needs to watch a video to know that that's obviously true is beyond me. It just highlights how fucked up religious 'thinking' is. Because society has not grown up enough to understand the difference between attraction, the purpose of the attraction, and the ways that the attraction can be expressed. Perhaps you can make an argument that it is not up to the church to define purpose and that the individual can and should be free to define it for themseves...but my argument is that society does not encourage people to get deeper with their emotions. Our motto in society is simply If it feels good, do it. Why do you think we have so many divorces? It is because heterosexuals are taught that man is an animal and in nature, a male can and does often have several different partners. Again, my basic argument is that sexual expression and compatibility should be treated deeper than is done. My critics will only point out that churches have no right to determine what should even means. My counterargument is that society needs to challenge itself to get deeper than mere biological urges and that there is a unique purpose for such urges.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: Agreed in that it is a secular issue, but one could argue that everything is a secular issue. My challenge is for the club to take a stand that potential members might think about. Since determining who or what makes someone a spouse is a secular contractual issue it really is irrelevant what any church or religion thinks on the matter. Lets ask this: What is the purpose for a gay union? Does your club have any guidelines?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Everyone on the planet knows and understands this. I don't think so. If everyone on the planet knew the meaning of love and of relationships and understood it fully, there would be no wars. Of course where you and I differ and will argue is that you think that people are born with no character defects and what we do and how we behave is essentially normal....whereas I believe that people are not born without flaws and that we are expected to work them out.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Our society does encourage a lot of voodoo nonsense about commitment and what a "committed relationship" should be. The problem isn't that there isn't enough of that; the problem is that it isn't realistic. Are you suggesting that humans should not strive for deeper insight? That the way we are is the way we will be? No wonder you dont want any sort of authority in your life apart from your own inner awareness. My argument is that you and all of us collectively---are not fully healthy just the way we are. To support my argument I present the growing number of addictions,compulsions,licentious liaisons and overall sensuality without responsibility that the human animal is plagued with.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be involved in some sort of personal revelation. The only revelation that I have is that all love starts and ends with Jesus Christ. You can argue against this fact, but all that you have left is humanity--and you wont fully express your love for humanity without an insight deeper than mere biology.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Rand basically teaches Objectivism
I am a Christian, and do not support objectivism. Pursuit of one's own happiness is contrary to what Jesus taught.
quote: Man is not God, nor are we our own highest ideal. Perhaps atheists would tend to embrace objectivism more due to their ideal conception. Edited by Phat, : fixedChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You are a nut!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Do you have any idea how vacuous that sounds? Im sure that SI Hayakawa is channeling through you at this moment! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Did you honestly just argue that atheists don't love? That Jews don't love? That two-thirds of the entire planet doesn't love? Basically, yes. I am arguing that many people do not love enough. And seeing how this is a Faith & Belief topic, I will bring scripture into it.
Because none of them have any connection to this "Jesus Christ" object you're talking about. They seem to be able to love just fine without it.
People outside of the church...perhaps that 2/3 that yo speak of, are obviously able to love each other without being required to worship or believe in God. Lets go to scripture. 1 Cor 13:4-7 writes: Whether it is a straight couple or a gay couple, the scripture exorts us to love.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.Does that make God needy? (Personally I think He does not need us so much as He knows that we need Him.) What is it that makes you think you know better than they do about their love?
Im just sharing my belief. I can't make you agree with me nor can I make you love me or even like me. Neither can God.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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You do have a point. My intention was not to be hateful, but it appears I am being perceived as such.
Perhaps I need to re evaluate my position.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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