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Author | Topic: The Church And Sexual Expression | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I have a rather biased view of this whole church/sex issue:
The church needs sinners--that's their business. That's their livelihood! If they can create a bunch of additional sins, then they have a lot more sinners. And sex is a prime target. If they can convince the sinners that they created that they are the "cure" (for a price) for those sins that they created, then they'll never have to do honest labor again. And the most evil created sin of all is "original sin." That's the biggest lie and cruelest idea ever concocted by our shaman class. Ayn Rand explains it well: What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledgehe acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evilhe became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his laborhe became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desirehe acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joyall the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he wasthat robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without lovehe was not man. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be involved in some sort of personal revelation. The only revelation that I have is that all love starts and ends with Jesus Christ. You can argue against this fact, but all that you have left is humanity--and you wont fully express your love for humanity without an insight deeper than mere biology.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Rand basically teaches Objectivism
I am a Christian, and do not support objectivism. Pursuit of one's own happiness is contrary to what Jesus taught.
quote: Man is not God, nor are we our own highest ideal. Perhaps atheists would tend to embrace objectivism more due to their ideal conception. Edited by Phat, : fixedChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tangle writes: Tell me, what flaws are newborn babies born with? They are all pruny and wrinkly and smell bad and spit up and can't control their bowels and lose their hair and ...
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The only revelation that I have is that all love starts and ends with Jesus Christ. You can argue against this fact, but all that you have left is humanity--and you wont fully express your love for humanity without an insight deeper than mere biology. Do you have any idea how vacuous that sounds?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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quote: What do you mean 'all' I have is humanity? That's what we are. You've some crazy strawman idea in your head that appears to be making you think that people can't have meaningful, long term relationships without this god nonsense or that the alternative is a purely mechanistic view of people. It's dumb, offensive and utterly wrong.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
quote: What? Are you losing the plot? You keep saying things that don't actually mean anything. They're just strings of preachy sounding words.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
quote: Sounds like my late mother-in-law.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I'm suggesting that people shouldn't look for ready-made insight; they shouldn't expect everybody's relationships to be the same; they shouldn't assume that there is something "wrong" if their relationships don't fit the mould.
Are you suggesting that humans should not strive for deeper insight? Phat writes:
Now you're contradicting yourself. Yes, we should have inner awareness, NOT rely on some spook to tell us who we are.
No wonder you dont want any sort of authority in your life apart from your own inner awareness. Phat writes:
Who said we were? My position is that religion is not the cure for addictions and compulsions. It's one of them.
My argument is that you and all of us collectively---are not fully healthy just the way we are. Phat writes:
You keep forgetting that I'M the one who advocates responsibility.
... overall sensuality without responsibility that the human animal is plagued with.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
... all love starts and ends with Jesus Christ.quote: Nice slogan - and one size fits all.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You are a nut!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Do you have any idea how vacuous that sounds? Im sure that SI Hayakawa is channeling through you at this moment! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phat writes:
quote: This is gobbledygook. Exactly what is it you think gay people do that straight people don't? Or vice versa? Are you seriously claiming that gay people "love" differently than straight people?
quote: Are you talking about Platonic love? Let me clue you in: That isn't "gay." If you want to talk about comity and friendship and all the rest of fraternity, then by all means talk about it. Why you gotta drag gay people into this? Yes, it's true that gay people, out of necessity, form their own families out of nothing but desire to be a family. When the family that raised you rejects you because you're gay, you turn to others to create the family you need. But that's true of anybody who is rejected by the people they thought were their family. And as more and more people come to accept being gay as something to be as celebrated as being straight, then your claim that the church needs to look to gay people won't make much sense. What on earth are you talking about?Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phat writes:
quote: (*blink!*) You did not just say that, did you? Did you honestly just argue that atheists don't love? That Jews don't love? That two-thirds of the entire planet doesn't love? Because none of them have any connection to this "Jesus Christ" object you're talking about. They seem to be able to love just fine without it. What is it that makes you think you know better than they do about their love?Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Did you honestly just argue that atheists don't love? That Jews don't love? That two-thirds of the entire planet doesn't love? Basically, yes. I am arguing that many people do not love enough. And seeing how this is a Faith & Belief topic, I will bring scripture into it.
Because none of them have any connection to this "Jesus Christ" object you're talking about. They seem to be able to love just fine without it.
People outside of the church...perhaps that 2/3 that yo speak of, are obviously able to love each other without being required to worship or believe in God. Lets go to scripture. 1 Cor 13:4-7 writes: Whether it is a straight couple or a gay couple, the scripture exorts us to love.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.Does that make God needy? (Personally I think He does not need us so much as He knows that we need Him.) What is it that makes you think you know better than they do about their love?
Im just sharing my belief. I can't make you agree with me nor can I make you love me or even like me. Neither can God.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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