Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 556 of 892 (794992)
12-03-2016 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Coyote
12-03-2016 10:52 AM


Not sure what point you're making, but I did wonder about this:
quote:
I routinely encounter people in possession of voter registration cards"
Voter registration cards? We don't have them in New Hampshire. Do many states have them? Just what I need, another card to stuff in my wallet.
I recently discovered that there's something called, I think, an enhanced driver's license. The holder told me it allows him to cross between the US, Canada and Mexico without a passport. I'm guessing that they record the passage between countries by computer and so do not need a passport to stamp. I like the idea of consolidating passport and driver's license into a single ID.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Coyote, posted 12-03-2016 10:52 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 558 by NoNukes, posted 12-03-2016 12:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 559 by jar, posted 12-03-2016 12:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 557 of 892 (794993)
12-03-2016 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Coyote
12-03-2016 10:52 AM


Oh come on, Coyote, don't you know that Breitbart is prime "fake news"? And how do we know that? Because the MSM disagrees with them, and they say they are fake news. I mean nothing could be clearer, the evidence is ironclad. And a bunch of racists too, and we know that because they have that story about illegals voting. Open and shut case there. And they probably object to a lot of what Black Lives Matter does too, confirming their white supremacist racism. And since they've certainly objected to bringing jihadists into the country without some attempt to judge just how jihadist they are, there's more evidence of racism, AND xenophobia too. I mean it's open and shut, Coyote, might as well give up trying to bring sanity to this discussion because they've already figured out that you're just a racist too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Coyote, posted 12-03-2016 10:52 AM Coyote has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 558 of 892 (794994)
12-03-2016 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by Percy
12-03-2016 11:08 AM


Voter registration cards? We don't have them in New Hampshire. Do many states have them?
We have them in NC. I used to carry mine in my wallet, but it turns out that those cards are neither required for voting, nor will they allow someone to vote. Your name has to be on the list provided at the voting place.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Percy, posted 12-03-2016 11:08 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 559 of 892 (794995)
12-03-2016 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by Percy
12-03-2016 11:08 AM


Voter Registration Cards
Texas has them and Georgia had them and IIRC I had one in Maryland, California and South Carolina. I can't remember about Arizona, North Carolina or the other states I lived in. All they do is tell you the precinct where your are registered to vote. At least in Texas during early elections you can vote at any early voting site but they did record that I had voted.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Percy, posted 12-03-2016 11:08 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 560 of 892 (794996)
12-03-2016 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
12-02-2016 10:03 PM


Re: The Militarization of everything
Woohoo, what a bunch of assertions without evidence, pure leftist propaganda. Wow. If there's sany truth to any of it, you really need to supply the evidence.
There weren't a lot of assertions. On the ongoing court cases and investigations into mafia involvement in the running of refugee centres - these are matters of public record. Here's the Washington Post reporting on the story, but I found the same story on Breitbart Report if you'd rather a foaming right-wing website.
Regarding the 'assertion' that Germans are not being forced out of their homes to make way for refugees; it would more behoove you to show evidence that this is happening, no? I'm not sure how you want me to demonstrate this negative. Point to some German families at home?
It seems the story about the hotel owner is true. The local authorities requisitioned his hotel under a law dating back to the 19th century - the Italian version of eminent domain - as they ran out of volunteers. The hotel owner had previously asked about volunteering as a refugee centre since his hotel was going under financially; but decided not to as he thought the compensation offered was too low. The refugees were there for a week before the requisition order was revoked (source (in Italian)). The council made a deal with a cooperative organisation to house them instead. This cooperative, unfortunately, is one of those mentioned which is currently under investigation for funnelling the money intended to house refugees into the pockets of mafiosos (source (in Italian)).
----------
With regards to the rest of my 'assertions without evidence'; they were simply about the gun laws and levels of gun ownership in various European countries. This is not difficult info to find. The only specific number I threw out was more than 2,000,000 officially registered guns in private hands in Sweden. That's from this report on gun ownership from the Swedish police (page 8 - found via Wikipedia).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 12-02-2016 10:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 2:30 PM caffeine has not replied
 Message 562 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 3:29 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 561 of 892 (794998)
12-03-2016 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 560 by caffeine
12-03-2016 12:42 PM


Re: The Militarization of everything
What you say is quite credible. I'll have to do some checking. Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 560 by caffeine, posted 12-03-2016 12:42 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 562 of 892 (794999)
12-03-2016 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 560 by caffeine
12-03-2016 12:42 PM


The Italian hotel owner
The video of the Italian old man and the hotel certainly shows something being forced on him by the police that he strenuously objects to. You've pretty much acknowledged this but I thought I'd put up the video. It shows the day the refugees arrived in two vans, who were taken inside while the man is protesting. It is hard to understand how this could happen to anyone in a civilized country. Old law of eminent domain? Sounds like an excuse for thievery to me. How can a government do that to its people?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 560 by caffeine, posted 12-03-2016 12:42 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 563 by DrJones*, posted 12-03-2016 4:09 PM Faith has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 563 of 892 (795000)
12-03-2016 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Faith
12-03-2016 3:29 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Old law of eminent domain? Sounds like an excuse for thievery to me. How can a government do that to its people?
Ask the president elect, who once tried to use eminent domain to force an old lady out of her house so he could build a parking lot.
Donald Trump's eminent domain love nearly cost a widow her house | David Boaz | The Guardian

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 3:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 4:42 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 564 of 892 (795001)
12-03-2016 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 563 by DrJones*
12-03-2016 4:09 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Just because I'm for Trump in this election doesn't mean I'm happy with everything about him. He could yet do things that would turn me against him.
There are probably some good applications of eminent domain but I don't know what they are. But why not address the topic? Is putting refugees in someone's property against his will a good application of eminent domain?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 563 by DrJones*, posted 12-03-2016 4:09 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by jar, posted 12-03-2016 6:03 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 565 of 892 (795002)
12-03-2016 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by Faith
12-03-2016 4:42 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
Is putting refugees in someone's property against his will a good application of eminent domain?
It's certainly what Jesus tells us to do; you know, shelter the homeless, protect the weak, love thy neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked ...

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 4:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 6:11 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 566 of 892 (795003)
12-03-2016 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 565 by jar
12-03-2016 6:03 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Absolutely not. That is a total perversion of Jesus' teaching. He does not advocate stealing from a person to give to others, he advocates voluntary giving and never suggests we should be forced to it. The hotel owner is a human being too, he's your neighbor too, and he is being evilly mistreated. There is also no hint that an entire nation is obligated to make room for people who might be a threat to its wellbeing. The idea is ludicrous and evil. What about loving your neighbor who lives next door? What if by helping your neighbor in the refugee camp you threaten the wellbeing of your neighbor next door?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by jar, posted 12-03-2016 6:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 567 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-03-2016 6:54 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 568 by jar, posted 12-03-2016 8:08 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 569 by NoNukes, posted 12-03-2016 11:08 PM Faith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 567 of 892 (795004)
12-03-2016 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
12-03-2016 6:11 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
What about loving your neighbor who lives next door? What if by helping your neighbor in the refugee camp you threaten the wellbeing of your neighbor next door?
Wow, there's a thought, what about helping your neighbor next door AND people in refugee camps, plus any other people in need that you run across?
You could even set up organizations take care of it efficiently and to not work at cross purposes, rather than give tax breaks (that the rest of us don't get) to the ultra wealthy who used their wealth to rig everything in their own favor. They have also been amazingly proficient at whipping up fervor and indignation and fear among the right-wing side of the political divide. Part of this is to further their nutty ideology and part of it is, as a distraction, while they rob the government and the people the government belongs to.
Good grief, Don the Con appointed a person who has spent her adult life in a crusade to shut down public education as the secretary of education! Are you shitting me?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 6:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 568 of 892 (795005)
12-03-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
12-03-2016 6:11 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Nothing was stolen and to assert that is simply silly.
Jesus said we should honor those in authority.
Jesus said we should do for others.
I understand that the Christianity YOU market may be different but that does not alter the facts in this case. The State was using the States powers to help those who need help. Nothing was stolen and to make that claim is simply another lie.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 6:11 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 570 by Asgara, posted 12-04-2016 12:23 AM jar has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 569 of 892 (795009)
12-03-2016 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by Faith
12-03-2016 6:11 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
He does not advocate stealing from a person to give to others, he advocates voluntary giving and never suggests we should be forced to it.
Faith, what was gleaning as described in the Bible? Was it not required rather than being voluntary?
quote:
You shall not strip your vineyard bare, or gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the alien: I am the Lord your God.
The poor and the alien?
And of course Jesus answered the question regarding who is your brother in the story of the Good Samaritan.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by Faith, posted 12-03-2016 6:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 571 by Faith, posted 12-04-2016 4:51 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(1)
Message 570 of 892 (795010)
12-04-2016 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 568 by jar
12-03-2016 8:08 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Not to mention he was initially, voluntarily allowing this; he was compensated; he then decided he didn't think they were offering enough for his failing hotel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 568 by jar, posted 12-03-2016 8:08 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 572 by caffeine, posted 12-04-2016 6:13 AM Asgara has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024