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Author Topic:   Dakota Access Pipeline to be re-routed!!!
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1 of 17 (795036)
12-04-2016 5:37 PM


I had planned to start a thread to discuss the sides of this issue, but I could not get around to it before today's announcement.
Dakota Access Pipeline to be rerouted | CNN Politics
he Army will not approve an easement that would allow the proposed Dakota Access Pipeline to cross under Lake Oahe in North Dakota, the Army's assistant secretary for civil works announced Sunday.
Jo-Ellen Darcy said in a press release she based her decision on a need to explore alternate routes for the Dakota Access Pipeline crossing. It was announced on November 14, 2016 that her office was delaying the decision on the easement to allow for discussions with the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, whose reservation lies 0.5 miles south of the proposed crossing.
At several points it appeared that the Sioux tribe was going to be ordered to leave the area, but no deadline for leaving was ever reached or enforced as the state and federal government backed off.
Trump was in favor of completing the pipeline but it appears that the DAPL cannot simply wait for Trump's inauguration. The DAPL needs to complete the work before the first week of January to avoid some fairly huge financial repercussions.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 2 of 17 (795049)
12-05-2016 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NoNukes
12-04-2016 5:37 PM


Good to hear, I think.
I didn't hear too much about this.
But this is the gist I got:
1. Pipeline was originally planned to go through a predominantly white neighbourhood.
2. White neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
3. Pipeline was moved.
4. Pipeline was then planned to go through native neighbourhood.
5. Native neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
6. Pipeline was not moved.
7. Protests.
8. Pipeline going to be moved (now).
Is there any other significant details going on?
Or was this pretty much a racist thing as my understanding describes?

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 Message 1 by NoNukes, posted 12-04-2016 5:37 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3 of 17 (795052)
12-05-2016 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Stile
12-05-2016 9:33 AM


Good to hear, or not
8. Pipeline going to be moved (now).
Which doesn't solve the problem, only relocates it. This is what incremental appeasement looks like.
Or was this pretty much a racist thing as my understanding describes?
Definitely racist, with state troopers from other locations "assisting" the local sheriff, currently under suspension while being investigated, and with the N Dakota National Guard called out by the governor to assist the pipeline company.
But also stupid -- they have spent over $10 million they have borrowed to do this ... money that the people of N Dakota, not the pipeline, will have to pay back at some point.
Is there any other significant details going on?
There are a growing list of people injured, from dog bites to flash grenades ripping a young woman's arm open to the bone.
Re-routing is not going to solve the problem that is posed by the pipelines. They are going to fail, they currently fail at a steady rate, causing massive pollution and destruction of ecologies. Some not found for weeks.
This is tar sand oil, and there is still a lot of sand in the relatively thick sludge being pumped down the pipes ... sandpaper anyone?
In addition there are remnant traces of the toxic chemicals used in the fracking process.
Then there are the fracking sites being abandoned as the price of oil drops, leaving swathes of destroyed habitats.
The same money put into solar energy would be more productive in the long run.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 4 of 17 (795058)
12-05-2016 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
12-05-2016 9:59 AM


Re: Good to hear, or not
Re-routing is not going to solve the problem that is posed by the pipelines.
No, it won't solve the problem. But perhaps this particular boon doggle will fail under the weight of the delays now caused by having to real environmental impact study completed and not being able to follow the current route. The ruling was a tremendous first step.
Of course the next president is predisposed to allow this stuff, and is less pre-disposed to listen to Native American protesting, environmentalists, the EPA, etc.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 12-05-2016 9:59 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 5 of 17 (795059)
12-05-2016 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Stile
12-05-2016 9:33 AM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
1. Pipeline was originally planned to go through a predominantly white neighbourhood.
2. White neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
3. Pipeline was moved.
4. Pipeline was then planned to go through native neighbourhood.
5. Native neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
6. Pipeline was not moved.
7. Protests.
8. Pipeline going to be moved (now).
Not really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Stile, posted 12-05-2016 9:33 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 6 of 17 (795060)
12-05-2016 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
12-05-2016 1:22 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
Ah, so that would update it to something more like:
1. Pipeline was originally planned to go through a predominantly white neighbourhood.
2a. White neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
2b. Pipeline people found holes in their own plan and didn't like the idea anymore.
3. Pipeline was moved.
4. Pipeline was then planned to go through native neighbourhood.
5. Native neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
6. Pipeline was not moved.
7. Protests.
8. Pipeline going to be moved (now).
Which then begs the question...
Is the pipeline actually being moved this time because of the protest?
Or did they find more holes in their own plan and move it on their own again anyway?
(I'm not assuming anyone actually has the answer to these questions, just sayin')

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2016 1:22 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 12-05-2016 5:10 PM Stile has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 17 (795065)
12-05-2016 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stile
12-05-2016 2:00 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
2a. White neighbourhood voted not to have the pipeline in their area.
There was no vote. The pipeline was re-routed away from Bismarck without any input from the city or its officials. If somebody decided that the pipeline was NSFW, the blame lies elsewhere.
Is the pipeline actually being moved this time because of the protest?
Or did they find more holes in their own plan and move it on their own again anyway?
The federal government denied easements without which the pipeline cannot take the current route. There is no new planned route for the pipeline and no indication that the DAPL wanted to change the route.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stile, posted 12-05-2016 2:00 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by xongsmith, posted 12-05-2016 5:34 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 12 by Stile, posted 12-06-2016 8:44 AM NoNukes has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 8 of 17 (795066)
12-05-2016 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NoNukes
12-05-2016 5:10 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
NSFW? Somehow the context prevented me from getting which version this acronym took on.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 12-05-2016 5:10 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 9 of 17 (795067)
12-05-2016 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by xongsmith
12-05-2016 5:34 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
Not Safe For Whitey, I would assume

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 17 (795068)
12-05-2016 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by xongsmith
12-05-2016 5:34 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
The usual meaning is Not safe for work. In this context the meaning is Not safe for whites.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by xongsmith, posted 12-05-2016 5:34 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 11 of 17 (795076)
12-05-2016 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
12-05-2016 9:59 AM


Not tar sands oil
Dakota Access Pipeline - Wikipedia
quote:
The route begins in the Bakken oil fields in northwest North Dakota...
This is tar sand oil, and there is still a lot of sand in the relatively thick sludge being pumped down the pipes ... sandpaper anyone?
No, it's not tar sand oil. That would be from up in Alberta.
In addition there are remnant traces of the toxic chemicals used in the fracking process.
This may very well true, but as I understand it, fracking is not involved in tar sands production. That said, tar sands production probably does have their own obnoxious chemicals (maybe even some of the same chemicals). I'm guessing that tar sands crude would be far worse than the Bakken crude.
I'm not at all pro-pipeline, but you had at least one substation factual error there.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Fix quote box and tweak message.

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 12 of 17 (795097)
12-06-2016 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by NoNukes
12-05-2016 5:10 PM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
NoNukes writes:
There was no vote. The pipeline was re-routed away from Bismarck without any input from the city or its officials. If somebody decided that the pipeline was NSFW, the blame lies elsewhere.
I would be okay with agreeing that there was no "official" vote.
And that the point is that the idea for moving the pipeline came from the pipeline-people... not the neighbourhood people.
From the article Dr Adequate presented:
quote:
The decision appeared to have been unrelated to objections from residents of Bismarck, and no plan was ever solidified to route the pipeline north of the city before its residents shut it down.
I took this to mean that the residents of Bismarck did, indeed, object... it just was not a factor in the decision to move the pipeline.
Whether or not their "objection" took the form of an actual vote... I don't really care, I don't think it's really part of the point.
Also, I don't think the native neighbourhood had an "official" vote either...
It's just a way to express the idea that the residents (of both neighbourhoods) did not want the pipeline in their respective areas.
NoNukes writes:
The federal government denied easements without which the pipeline cannot take the current route. There is no new planned route for the pipeline and no indication that the DAPL wanted to change the route.
Right. And then my question still stands.
Did the federal government deny easements because of the protest?
Or for some other reason?
Assuming it was because of the people is why I required correction from Dr Adequate in my original thoughts.
Has the government stated that denying the easements was because of the people protesting the pipeline?
I think it's likely that the answer is "yes," but again, I'm trying to learn my lesson about making assumptions...

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 17 (795100)
12-06-2016 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Stile
12-06-2016 8:44 AM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
What I don't get is that they plan to cross the river twice and not very far apart.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 17 (795130)
12-06-2016 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Stile
12-06-2016 8:44 AM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
Has the government stated that denying the easements was because of the people protesting the pipeline?
No. The official reason given does not mention the protests at all, and that is probably for the best. It does mention that the Sioux nation is to be consulted and that an environmental impact study is to be done. You might read between the lines and credit the protest, but I am not aware that the government made any such statement.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Stile, posted 12-06-2016 8:44 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 15 of 17 (795139)
12-06-2016 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
12-06-2016 9:01 AM


Re: Good to hear, I think.
to make extra sure that when the pipe leaks it all goes in to the river.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

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