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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
MTW writes: I believe that God definitely helped. He gave me discernment to discriminate among the wisdom of the world and the desires and beliefs of my heart. It was I who had to decide on the narrow path which is emotionally painful...the path of sobriety. I also had to reject the broad easy path of feeding my carnal nature what it desires on a daily basis. Much of the modern world follows this broad easy path. I don't believe God does things for us. He always provides a way out, however. It's possible God helped, even indirectly. Recovery and change are all about science, Mike. There is no hocus pocus involved. It is also about more than simple positive afffirmation or willpower. When the brain becomes addicted the frontal lobes heat up, the neuro plasticitity changes, and the brain changes. Addicts do not simply stop their behaviors easily. It can be done, but it requires a strong awareness of the difference between the addictive feeling and the desire to stop. Fewer than 10% of aaddicts can just stop.
... you can be in control of it again, as you now are. Yes, but the process involves the brain actually changing back to its state before the addictive behavior changed it. it takes 5 months for the brain to begin to change. This is day # 140, and I am mildly depressed wondering where all the promise of joy has gone. This too shall pass eventually. Right now the emotions are intense.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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5 months will be day 150 (30x5) I have been healing. One sign is that occasionally I will cry...and I rarely cry. Once was at my counselors as I was describing my past. Another time I was with a friend praying and we both started crying. The emotions that triggered it were long buried and unconnected to any event. Consciously, at least.
The healing is taking a lot longer than I first thought, but Im willing to spend a good year or more and get complete healing rather than partial healing followed by relapse.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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phat in January 2016 writes:
Today,December 17th,2016 as I look back on the previous year and evaluate my quest for sobriety and apply what I have learned about sobriety and the mechanism through which the brain(my brain) is healing, I will correct my own thinking and understanding on the matter 11 months ago. The Four Step Program can be used with or without a therapist and evidence shows that by understanding what is happening medically, one can literally change their brain biochemically over time. There are MRI images that confirmed this. We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behavior in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably. Before, when I merely relabeled the dysfunction as "The Beast" it was never enough for me---perhaps because it never made logical sense. I knew that the beast arose from the Limbic Brain but I never was able to vilify my own beast enough.Understanding that it is a medical condition basically gives me no excuses---apart from suicidal tendencies--to keep being obsessive and compulsive. One key is what jar used to always say to me---that I preferred fantasy over reality. I have met the enemy and he is I. The Four Step program can be used with or without an external therapist, but the inner observer...the internal therapist is absolutely crucial...in fact it is a part of the process itself. I said back then that "we can hypothetically use logic and reason to control our behavior in spite of the medical disorder but that...did not seem to be working reliably...now, with 153 days of sobriety under my belt, I can confirm that the brain does change and that sobriety itself was the key that allowed the change to occur. I mentioned that I was never able to vilify my Beast enough...but now understand that the disease is in fact a medical condition rather than a flaw in my personality. I had read and understood this fact logically before...as Post # 61 suggests, but had never actually experienced any lasting sobriety before July 18th,2016...the day after losing my job. In September, I said this:My hope and prayer is that this time--in 2016--i can achieve my goal and report my experience back to all of you. Now, with 153 days of sobriety under my belt, I can report that my brain is changing! I am in fact looking more towards a lifestyle change rather than a program with limited goals. The issue is not so much about how many days sober I am, but more towards actualizing the goal of mindfulness. Also I mentioned that a person cannot recover without feeling safe. Being unemployed for 5 months, I really didnt feel totally safe...though as a believer I should have a bit more trust in Gods blessing both past,present,and future. I had been unemployed for 5 months as of yesterday. Around two years ago, I recalled having a dream that specifically had me getting my job at Safeway back...but at the time the dream confused me because I still had my job and was secure...I felt safe. I can joyfully report that yesterday, after 5 months to the day... I was offered my job back! ! (Settlement meeting between Safeway and Local 7 after two previous steps had been denied)And yes...I attribute this to God. Perhaps a skeptic could say that logically it could be for other reasons, but my personal belief is that God was involved in blessing me and equipping me with wisdom. Now I can feel safe again...save more money..(no gambling any more) and my hope and prayer is that my ongoing healing and recovery...through 2017...will be discussed here and that we all can learn something new about recovery science. I believe that God gave me the strength and wisdom to recover...and I believe that I had to initiate my recovery...and I am under no illusions that I have recovered fully yet. Stay tuned.... Edited by Phat, : edit Edited by Phat, : mehChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Seeing as how my topic is about addiction, perhaps we could discuss the idea of religion as a possible addiction. At what point does belief and subsequent action become addictive rather than prescriptive?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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jar writes: I see your point. The recovery is recovery of the individual. The addiction is a disease in the brain and thought process of the individual. I don't think you can call any thing an addiction. Religion, alcohol, drugs, gambling ...things are not the addiction. Some religious behavior could be an addiction, misuse of alcohol or gambling or drugs could be an addiction.
Alcohol is not the problem.The problem is the individuals response to alcohol. I would say at this point, however..(Today is #154) that I could very easily label the tendency to gamble and the subsequent addiction in my mind as a demon. I preferred fantasy over reality. I felt entitled to something...be it from society or from God. Granted the addiction was a medical disorder stemming from my willful misuse of a habit. Perhaps I should ask myself some questions.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
MTW writes: Or in how we interpret scripture...to cherry pick into fitting the promise to our own desired end. Interesting line of thought. As a believer, it is necessary that I examine myself. Celebrate Recovery encourages this.
I guess human-reason can be an addiction. That is to say - can we get overly concerned with what WE, according to limited human reason, infer about God? If we, with our limited intellects, choose our intellect, and choose to know better than God then aren't we addicted to moulding God into our own image?MTW writes: So in other words are you saying that we need to beware of reading our own desired answers into the scripture? I have the answer Phat. I have an ability to reason and I can state as someone with that ability, that there is a definite limit to reason. Human-reason can only take us so far but we simply can't understand the actions of an Almighty reasoner.For God's thoughts are like Isaiah says, "as the heavens are higher than the earth", so is His thoughts higher than our thoughts. So when we read something confusing in the bible, God does not want us to jump to conclusions based on limited human reason, nor does He want us to mutilate the bible and doubt what He has said. Beware the addiction of choosing a limited, subjective and fallible intellect over an all-knowing, unlimited, infallible God. As an aside...I firmly believe in the infallibility of scripture provided it is taken in context.
Wiz writes: Hopefully I will ultimately trust Jesus Himself. Perhaps my question to you is this: If God could speak to a human through a donkey, can he speak to us through an atheist? Or are you going to trust the guy that tells you Jesus is Allah, who is Father Christmas and is also a she, that doesn't exist..Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes:
Seeing as how my topic is about addiction, perhaps we could discuss the idea of religion as a possible addiction. At what point does belief and subsequent action become addictive rather than prescriptive?Tangle writes: Like all addictions, it's when you feel that can't do without it. What is it? The idea of God or God Himself? What would I replace this addiction with?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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New Cats Eye writes: Furthermore, addiction can be seen as a medical disorder. MRI imaging confirms this.
Addictions are for things that you don't need to live, but you think you need them anyway.I'm glad you found something better. How's it coming along? Day 166 today. Many challenges in life which bring up the repressed feelings. I am unused to allowing feelings to occur...especially when they are painful. I am optimistic for the long term, however. By the way...I saw this in your new topic:
New Cat Sci writes: Can you share what your addiction is? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable. Anyways, my life has been privileged, and I have been successful. And yet, I find myself unhappy because I am battling addiction. It turns out that trying to solve emotional problems with a scientific approach hasn't done me any good over the years, and I am not that well. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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The dictionary defines what recovery means. There are many common delusions in everyday thinking, and they are not limited to mentally ill people--unless a case could be made that since addiction is a medical disorder of the brain,anyone suffering from any addiction is at least mildly mentally ill. I know that for me personally, gambling was most definitely a delusion. My next addiction, emotional codependency, is proving to also be a delusion...though it is harder to let go in this one. I have always thought of myself as an older figure who had the wisdom to rescue younger people and not as one who was emotionally codependent. As my recovery process heals my brain, however...I am seeing that I was in fact delusional in that I saw myself as a rescuer rather than emotionally codependent. Recovery in this issue goes way back to my childhood where i had a Father who was emotionally codependent on me...and I always saw him as my rescuer. 2017 should be a year of further healing, and I look forward to being a stronger mentor rather than a codependent one. The process will take time, however.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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I am having some strange dreams about old unresoved obsessions and compulsions I used to have. It seems as though the healing process goes back in time further and further the longer i am sober. Carnes claims the entire process is 3-5 years.
I certainly hope not, but it makes me realize even more the importance of continuing to take sobriety seriously. My work is twice as hard as it was before---the new Boss demands that we stay busy all of the time, even though after an hour or so of straight customers with 200 dollar orders, one would need a break. Again, I thank God for giving me my job back and realize that without sobriety I couldn't even handle these new challenges. I again see my counselor on thursday. Stay tuned....the healing is only starting. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Today is day 180. I went and saw my counselor yesterday. We discussed...among other things...the idea that the flip side of entitlement is responsibility. I thought of you when he said that!
jar writes: I certainly feel as if prayer is important in that it shifts my focus off of myself and onto God. Do you feel that God can do anything for us that he has not already done? Praying like gambling or eating or drugs or most any THING is not the addiction. When how you perform or use the THING interferes with normal behavior, with other people, with family, with work, with your health then that behavior can be the issue or addiction. Am I sober 180 days due to myself or did God play a part in this?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Addiction can be measured. That is the textbook definition...that the brain has become molded around the addiction.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Again, the issue is if the brains neuroplasticity has molded itself to support the addiction. Sugarless gum, for example, is nothing more than a habit. As far as I know, there is no evidence that the brains neuroplasticity molds itself around this habit. Not so with compulsive gambling(documented to have a higher suicide rate than heroin or methamphetamine) alcohol, drugs, text messaging, and compulsive pornographic addictions.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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The whole point to the example is that the habit was without any appreciable consequences; i. e. a non-issue. I see your point. My point was that the consequences that determined whether a habit wass an addiction or not were entirely based on MRI technology. If the pattern of abberant brain dysfunction occurs, the verdict is that the habit---any habit---is thus an addiction regardless of the subjects opinion regarding consequences. This is day 186. I feel more mindful and in control of my destiny. Yes, I still have addictions to fight...ones that are discernable through brain imaging. The good news is that I know how to fight them. In a word...total sobriety, fueled by the four step awareness method. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Have we really connected all addictions to brain changes that can be revealed by an MRI scan? Well, OK. The cost would be prohibitive...so no. Let me do a bit more research into this one.... This is Day 187. I had dinner with an old friend last night. He was the one who used to suffer from addictions to the point that he had to do prison time due to the consequences. He also was a Torah student and it was he who introduced me to the concept of Rational Recovery. I was mildly interested in the science behind recovery but it never really hit home until I actually have been recovering. Here is a good website. Understanding Drug Use and Addiction quote: I suppose that first, the individual themselves would start the ball rolling towards recovery. Without the cooperation of the individual, recovery is quite simply impossible. The next step is how the intervention specialist---be it a professional, layman group leader, or even a well-meaning friend guides the addict towards recovery. For some, a sobriety group does the trick, but the science is in the length of sobriety. For others, a psychiatrist may be needed to jump start the brain chemically towards abstinence. My point is that the brain will only change once the subject wants to change, feels safe, and only when the length of sobriety from the addiction adequately allows the brain to heal back from its aberration. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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