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Author Topic:   Learning How to Pray After Finding God, from the perspective of a born again Catholic
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 1 of 35 (796407)
12-29-2016 12:21 PM


A submission for an opening post for a topic of discussion in the Comparative Religions section of EvC Forum
I was raised Catholic and learned exactly how to walk the walk and talk the talk, and I even thought that I believed in God (now I guess I really didn't). Becoming a bachelor of science, I approached my personal religion in a systematic and analytical way. As a result, I was a spiritual child who never really found God. Scientifically, I couldn't come to any conclusion that He1 wasn't there, but there are other people out there who are "bachelors of religion", and I trusted that they had to be on to something. I accepted that God exists, and went on about my life. Along the way I've argued here as a theist who know that we've evolved from apes and likes to nerd out on evolution and cosmology while trolling people who I know are incredibly wrong. Know that not everything I've said has been a position that I wholeheartedly agreed with, and realize that when you're not sure what the answer is, you can test an answer by using it in an argument with other people on the internet. That's like the whole philosophy of Wikipedia, ain't no shame in my game.
Anyways, my life has been privileged, and I have been successful. And yet, I find myself unhappy because I am battling addiction. It turns out that trying to solve emotional problems with a scientific approach hasn't done me any good over the years, and I am not that well. I learned a new way to approach solving a problem, and when I applied that to my addiction problem, I started trying new solutions. One of them ended up being that whole "seeking a higher power" thing that 12-step refers to (I am not an advocate of 12-step, y'all just know what it is).
I ended up turning to God (meaning what that means to me), and I got a response. It was non-verbal, but I knew what I had to do. I don't think that source of knowledge was myself. I was at a place where I didn't know what to do, and I didn't know where to go for help, so I said fuck it and opened myself up to God in the way that I thought I should (and have never done so before), and it hit me hard. I am now driven to change my life in a way I have never been before. Don't worry; I am taking this slowly and I have a lot of support, thankfully.
I've seen my medical doctor and I am physically well, so I am seeking some counseling on my mental and emotional health. I haven't been to my first appointment yet (its soon), but there's a lot of work in preparing and I've realized that this place is a creative output for me that I enjoy and that it is also a valuable resource for discussion.
I am also a fairly intelligent person who has learned that he may be experiencing being Bipolar, and that it is not impossible that I could need medication. If my experience with finding God was just my first manic attack, then that is exciting too - that means that I've been successful all these years while I've been depressed, so if I can get well then I should only do better, and I have a plan.
Also, these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, so I don't feel like its one way or the other.
I'm not yet convinced that drugs is the answer to my problem, and my doctor agrees that I should seek counseling first, which I'm doing. I'd also like to spend some of my time here arguing anonymously2 on the internet with strangers who I can relate to, in an attempt to learn.
For the purposes of this thread, I'd like to hear from other people who believe that they have found God, and learn more about what their experiences have been like for them. I'm also using this place for therapy, because I've realize how much I like to write and I think this is good for me. If you want to talk that side of it, feel free to reply as well.
I haven't really learned how to pray yet, and by that I mean in a way that I find value3, so I don't. Friends in RL are telling me that I'll figure it out. Anybody here want to help me?
How do you pray? How do you pray? I feel like it might just literally be "to relate to God".
For the non-theists: Is there such a thing as "secular prayer"? I suppose that would be literally "to relate to the void". Would you think there would be any value in that sort of thing? What about for a person who has an addiction problem?
.
1: capitalizing words like he when I refer to God, and even the word god, is purely syntax for me, but I am doing it out of respect.
2: I do value my anonymity here so please respect that. If I simply refuse to talk about something, that is why.
3: Remember I was raised Catholic, I totally have a bunch of prayers memorized. I just don't really know how to use them in a way that helps me.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 5:18 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 4 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 9:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 12-30-2016 8:38 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 8 by Stile, posted 12-30-2016 1:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 9 by GDR, posted 12-31-2016 8:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 01-03-2017 3:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 12 by Dogmafood, posted 01-04-2017 9:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 01-13-2017 1:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 35 (796664)
01-02-2017 4:59 PM


Thanks everyone for the replies, it's good stuff. I intend to reply to everyone who replied to me, but I'm a little busy in RL right now. This will prolly just end up being a slow moving thread, but I'll be participating gradually so please bare with me.

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 21 of 35 (797212)
01-14-2017 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
01-13-2017 1:02 PM


Re: A Source Apart From Ourselves
I ended up turning to God (meaning what that means to me), and I got a response. It was non-verbal, but I knew what I had to do. I don't think that source of knowledge was myself.
I didn't think so either...when it happened to me. Darn if I can prove it, though!
It's like with "The Muse". When I really allow myself to be creative and I get that inspiration, I can see how people think that's a source other than just your self. Personifying it as a female character helps us talk about it as a thing so we can relate to each other about it, but nobody really even knows if its a real other thing or not. So then it gets weird and some people think you might be crazy, so I don't really care about proving it. And if we have anonymity, it doesn't really matter what people think; we can still talk about it.
Same goes with talking about God. We're each going to have some concept of what that means, and we're probably never going to be the same, so I think it helps to just take it for what it's worth, and do what you can to help.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 01-13-2017 1:02 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 35 (797213)
01-14-2017 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Modulous
12-29-2016 9:10 PM


Your friends are probably right. I guess by certain modern definitions I might qualify as one and I agree with those RL ones.
I consider you one of my "anonomous internet friends".
And yet, I find myself unhappy because I am battling addiction.
Or perhaps you are battling an addiction because you were unhappy?
It's like an emotional feedback loop.
I don't know you all that well, but you could also be suffering with psychosis or quasi-psychotic states. That can come from bipolarity, or all on its own.
I'm pretty sure it's not that bad, and I have tons of support.
I've settled on meditative practices as my preferred method.
Yeah, I'm starting to practice meditation. Thanks for the tips, I'll let you know if I have questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 9:10 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Modulous, posted 01-15-2017 11:00 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 35 (797299)
01-16-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
12-29-2016 5:18 PM


I believe you but unfortunately there are other sources of such knowledge than God, and even true believers can be tripped up about that.
Outside of what you believe the Bible says, is there anything you use to help in identifying that sources are from something other than God?
ABE:
Oh, thanks for the tips on the Lord's Prayer, I appreciate it.
Edited by New Cat's Eye, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 5:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 35 (797300)
01-16-2017 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
12-30-2016 8:38 AM


Re: Learning How To Listen
I simply go to a quiet place where no one can disturb me. I talk...sometimes audibly.
I haven't tried talking out loud yet; you think that helps?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 12-30-2016 8:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 2:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 27 of 35 (797303)
01-16-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Stile
12-30-2016 1:25 PM


Some people, like me, are terrified of working with something that isn't factual or based in objective re-inforcement.
Sure, I fit into that a bit. More so on the factual side than the objective one, though.
Part of opening yourself to God has a lot to do with submission and letting go. It makes you very vulnerable and open to suggestion, so it's scary to think that I may simply be tricking myself into believing that it is God, and that's something I want to avoid.
There is definitely "something there" that seems to not be me, but it's really hard to tell that it cannot simply be a product of the mind (there's a reason they say it takes faith). Whatever it is, it isn't the same things as my self that is sitting here typing to you right now. Maybe a different self, if it is a self, but it really doesn't seem that way.
Kinda like I said with inspiration and "The Muse"... typically something-else is inspiring you, but you gotta let it happen and you can totally fight it off.
I think praying can be a very important tool to someone with an addiction problem. But with any motivational tool... someone with an addiction needs to be very careful in how far they take it. Watch out for that line crossing from motivation-for-something-healthy into rationalization-of-something-unhealthy. It's not an easy thing to do.
I've also started practicing meditation, so there's that. It's really hard, but I like it. It follows the same patterns: you have to submit to it and just let it happen while being mindful of the distractions, and you could totally fight it.
Well... there's my ramblings
Thanks!
Edited by New Cat's Eye, : typos and added clarity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Stile, posted 12-30-2016 1:25 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Stile, posted 01-17-2017 9:26 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 35 (797329)
01-17-2017 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by GDR
12-31-2016 8:51 PM


Thanks for the reply. If for some reason I ever left The Catholic Church, I'd join an Anglican one.
I appreciate the book recommendations, I'll add them to the list (I'm in the middle of two right now). I'll check out the youtube videos first, thanks for those too, and for seconding following The Lord's Prayer, I think that's good advice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by GDR, posted 12-31-2016 8:51 PM GDR has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 35 (797330)
01-17-2017 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
01-16-2017 2:38 PM


Re: Learning How To Listen
it makes me focus better
Yeah, my mind wanders a lot.
Have you looked into mindfulness meditation? Just google it. It helps control the wondering mind, and I find it helping me to be able to pray better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 2:38 PM Phat has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 30 of 35 (797331)
01-17-2017 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by mike the wiz
01-03-2017 3:41 PM


Is life just an accident?
That literally has nothing to do with this topic.
New cat's eye, I think it can't be coincidental that the bible says that those who seek God will find Him, that He "resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble".
Sure, but if you really really want something then you are capable of convincing yourself of it. I don't want to trick myself into believe something that isn't true.
The real question is; why do only the humble find God?
Well, I'll liken it to meditation again. You cannot force yourself to meditate, you can only let go and allow yourself to fall into it. Heck, even trying to let go can prevent you from doing it. It's all about submission.
It seems to me that finding God is very similar. As if God is waiting there ready to help you, but you have to seek Him and ask for it, i.e. you gotta want it.
There may also be a experience which generalisation-fallacy-lovers would call a, "religious experience" so as to broaden the target, and lump in the born-again experience, with all other religious manmade, pseudo-gold.
Geez, you seem so hostile. What's up with that?
I think you have now experienced the start perhaps, of being born-again, which is NOT RELIGION, and you must surely know the difference now, if you really have found Him.
I'm using the phrase "born again" colloquially, but I feel like it's already happened. That is, my outlook is different now and everything seems just a bit different. Like, I actually like going to Church now, and my manners have changed.
The catholic church unfortunately, teaches a DEAD version of prayer.
I disagree. I know devout Catholics who have truly found God and pray Catholic prayers. My mother is one of them, and she says the Rosary a lot.
It's not that their version is dead, it's that their approach on how to do it was ineffective. As I said, unknowingly, they taught me how to walk the walk and talk the talk, and I totally got away with just going with the flow and saying I believed. Nobody ever questions your faith, so I blended right in and everything seemed fine. Unfortunately, I was doing it wrong and they didn't see it.
Now that I've found God, all the stuff I learned over the years is seen in a new light, and it makes a lot more sense and seems to work just fine.
I would say if it is difficult to pray it is because, "you must unlearn what you have learnt". - Yoda, - The Empire Strikes Back.
Nah, I don't think so. I don't need to unlearn it, I need to learn how to actually utilize it. It's not that it's wrong, I've just been doing it the wrong way.
Now you're dealing with THE REAL THING and I can tell you if you have tasted the real thing, you must surely know how DEAD religion is, and how religion is a CHEAP COPY of the true gospel.
I'm not buying it... religion is a system. It is dealing with things that none of us can actually know is real, so it has severe limitations. I think a lot of religion has to do with analogizing and metaphorizing rather than being attempts at literal factual descriptions. Jesus even had to use a lot of parables.
That is - you asked as a real-life experience, for God's help, you communicated, WHICH IS PRAYER. Now all you have to say is, "God lead me from here, if that was you."
I would suggest reading the bible. What I do is I ask God to lead me to the answers in His word.
I'm not drawn to praying for things for me. And I've read a ton of the Bible already, I know what it says. Perhaps a new outlook would change things, but I have enough on my plate right now.
I would say, don't stop seeking God now with a tally of 1. Choose to go forward.
That's good advice, I intend for prayer to be a habitual part of my life.
...if life is an accident, if it's all a big-banged tornado in a junkyard, then to my mind, logically speaking, specifically answered prayer wouldn't happen generally, nor would the other 4,500 specific answers God has given me, have happened, because it would just be a random, indifferent, universe where there is no God to answer.
...
You have to cut through the phlegm and ask this question; "does this fit with a universe where God does exist and can communicate to me like the bible says, or does it fit with a random Godless universe where you wouldn't expect a specific answer."
That's a false dichotomy. In the future, for this thread, keep it to yourself.
If you keep talking about all this "accident" nonsense, then I'll just stop replying to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 01-03-2017 3:41 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 35 (797338)
01-17-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Stile
01-17-2017 9:26 AM


I think this is an important aspect that should be "a part" of everyone's healthy mental state.
Situations and experiences are also generally different and nuanced, therefore they require a multitude of different strategies to navigate through them on a daily basis.
If you go around always controlling, always dictating what's going to happen... you'll find yourself losing touch with how to empathize with others.
If you go around always following, always bending to an outside will... you'll find yourself being swept away into other's worlds too much.
It's important to do a bit of both, and find out your own personal balance for how much of each you need in order to feel healthy.
That sounds like what I've been learning about mindfulness in the difference between the thinking mind and the being mind. I've been running around with only the thinking mind forever now, and have just started learning how to tap into my being mind. It's very interesting and I'm finding it quite helpful
There will be certain things you hold to be personally important - these you will need to exert a certain amount of personal control into them or else you'll feel like you're being swept away and pulled through life. An amount of resentment and frustration will build as you continually get pushed around on things you don't want to be doing. The results will always lead to stress and depression.
There will be other things you will find curious to explore or maybe an uncomfortable feeling about how to proceed through a non-threatening environment - this is where the submissive aspect can flourish. Let your self flow naturally through these situations, be led by external cues (from God, others, anything...) The sensation of letting go includes a feeling of freedom and relaxation that can be very powerful. It can be a source of inspiration and creativity contrary to a situation where you're controlling... where you're likely doing things you understand fairly well and therefore taking rather familiar, biased actions.
Right, so just because you need to start using your being mind doesn't mean you have stop using your thinking mind sometimes too. You gotta use both!
Like anything... just keep your head up, and watch out for when you're doing it too much. Again, "too much" is your own limit. No one else can tell you where that is. And finding it may well take some trial and error.
Yep, as with most things; balance is key.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Stile, posted 01-17-2017 9:26 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Stile, posted 01-18-2017 9:10 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 34 of 35 (797354)
01-18-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Stile
01-18-2017 9:10 AM


1 - Even if you "find your limits" there's nothing that says those limits/likes/dislikes can't change next week, next month, next year... People are generally fluid. We grow and adapt and change. Sometimes limits need to be re-tested, updated, re-evaluated. This is where meditation can be very helpful. And what if you want to change a limit, but you don't feel that you can? This is the sort of thing were we can "use our intelligence (mindful tools and such) to deal with or adapt our instincts (initial reactive feeling)." Serious, important tools like cognitive behavioral therapy or maybe easy, amateurish tools like focusing on and remembering a desired goal.
2 - Outside influences can sometimes be difficult to deal with. Just as a single example, let's take "being submissive." I think it's an important part of everyone that needs to be included at some level. However, there are many who would assume that anything associated with the word submissive is somehow weak or negative or otherwise 'something to avoid.' Because "they're a MAN!"
Right on. I've never really cared about being that manly, but lately I've cared even less, and started caring more about what people might consider un-manly things. And I'm not afraid to admit it, nor am I ashamed.
I'll have to watch that later...
Oh, and I started playing Diablo 3 again. Apparently in the last few years they dumped the auction house, re-vamped the entire loot-drop system and it's super fun to play again! Wifey me and a buddy just started Season 9 (sort of like Diablo 2's "Ladders") and it's crazy fun! We've played, maybe... 5 nights? And we've had, like... 8-10 legendary drops each already... while leveling up. It's finally fun to play the actual game and get good loots!
No shit!? I've been looking for a new(different) game to get into. I didn't like the old loot system in Diablo 3 so I quit playing it. This sound promising, I'm going to update it tonight.
Are we already Battlenet friend (I can't remember)? I suppose I'll start a new guy... If I can't find you on Battlenet, I'll send you a PM here to let you know my nametag (I can't remeber that either).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Stile, posted 01-18-2017 9:10 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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