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Author Topic:   Learning How to Pray After Finding God, from the perspective of a born again Catholic
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 8 of 35 (796491)
12-30-2016 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by New Cat's Eye
12-29-2016 12:21 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
I'm also using this place for therapy, because I've realize how much I like to write and I think this is good for me. If you want to talk that side of it, feel free to reply as well.
Don't mind if I do!
I'm basically an atheist, so take from this what you will.
I think that everyone has their own way to feeling "good."
I find it difficult to put into words, but here goes.
Let's start with the basics... everyone understands something along the lines of "people need food, water and shelter."
That's for more of the physical side of things, though. What about the mental side?
I think that the mental side needs a few things as well, I would say it needs safety and confidence.
Again, this isn't the physical side (physical safety would fall under "shelter," really).
What I'm talking about here is the feelings of feeling safe and feeling confident.
In my understanding, all people are different.
Some like the colour blue, others like the colour red, or whatever.
This seems irrelevant and insignificant, but I think it's really important.
When someone likes blue over red... why is that? I think it comes down to their mental state... their feelings... they simply have different feelings about colours.
So, if we can accept that people have different feelings, and perhaps even different ways to feel this makes it difficult to give everyone a feeling of safety and confidence.
Whereas the physical side is easy. Water is water for me and water for you. We can just give everyone water.
But what about feelings? What if I need red and you need blue? Or what if you don't even know what feeling you need in order to be feel safe and confident?
The first step, to me, is the physical side. If you don't physically have access to food, water and shelter (physical safety). What hope do you have of finding time to worry about your mental side? I will assume you have access to food and water. But what about phsycial safety? You need to have a 'home base' that is yours, one that is safe, one that others cannot access without your permission, one where you are free to 'be you' (whatever that means) without worry of some sort of backlash.
This is where the physical and mental side of 'safety' overlap.
Some people like to be in groups.
Others like to be alone.
Many like to have varying degrees of each and even those "varying levels" can change from week to week.
Some people like being away from civilization. More on their own.
Others like being in the middle of a city, with close-access to emergency help and things like that.
There's a balance you'll likely have to figure out on your own.
This is where drugs can come in to play. Maybe you need some sort of drug to help calm your mind so you can even think about and consider such things. My wife has dissociative episodes where "she" loses time while "someone else" takes over for a bit if her anxiety gets too high. We tried a bunch of mind-drugs (have to give them, like, 3-4 months of a chance to see if they're even working) but each one either didn't help... or did help, but also made her feel 'dull' or lose some other part of herself she didn't want to live without. We eventually ended up with more of a sleep-helping/anti-depressant drug with very minor mind-effects (Trazedone). But these things are definitely not a one-size-fits-all deal. This allowed her to get normal sleep, which allowed her to focus her mind during the day which allowed her therapy to start working as well.
And onto the religious side of things for mental health... I don't think there is an absolute "right answer." I think this deals a lot with people's feelings. I think the mental side of health is very important and always has been. It just wasn't identified as such a long, long time ago. People called it "religion."
Some people, like me, are terrified of working with something that isn't factual or based in objective re-inforcement.
There are terrifying questions out there like "what happens to me when I die?" and such things. I find solace in the fact that "no one knows"... so I don't feel bad that *I* don't know.
But this isn't the way all people feel. This isn't how all people work.
Some people can't deal with "we don't know" answers. And they need to get that feeling of safety and confidence from a sense that "someone" has this all worked out... that there is "some plan" and possibly a "great power" is leading the way.
And boom... religion.
This can be a significant source of mental health. "What's going to happen when I die?" causes worries... the answer of "God will take care of me." Can be a very powerful answer to those worries, if it works for the way your mental health works.
In this sense... I don't think there is an absolute "wrong answer" about being an atheist or being religious or anywhere in between. I think there is a right/wrong answer for New Cat's Eye... and right/wrong answer for Stile, and a right/wrong answer for every single different human being.
Step 1 - Figure out how you think, how you feel.
Step 2 - Accept the answer that works with the way you are. Otherwise, you'll constantly be fighting your own "self" whether you know it or not.
For the non-theists: Is there such a thing as "secular prayer"? I suppose that would be literally "to relate to the void".
In a sense... yes. I just call it "wishing." I don't wish to a void, or "to" anything specific. I just make wishes. Sometimes to everything/anything... sometimes just "making a wish."
Would you think there would be any value in that sort of thing?
Yes. I think wishing is an aspect of being creative, striving for things and can be used for motivational purposes as well.
What about for a person who has an addiction problem?
I think praying can be a very important tool to someone with an addiction problem. But with any motivational tool... someone with an addiction needs to be very careful in how far they take it. Watch out for that line crossing from motivation-for-something-healthy into rationalization-of-something-unhealthy. It's not an easy thing to do.
Well... there's my ramblings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-29-2016 12:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 01-05-2017 8:18 AM Stile has replied
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2017 2:53 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 15 of 35 (796839)
01-05-2017 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
01-05-2017 8:18 AM


Re: Balance
Phat writes:
... five core values which all worked synergistically to get our heads straight:
  • Balance
  • Accountability
  • Leverage
  • Interdependence
  • Empowerment
Sounds pretty much what I'm attempting to describe as "safety" and "confidence."
It's only half the point though, understanding that such mental-requirements exist.
The other point is also very important - that the physical needs to meet these mental requirements can be different from person to person... and that this is expected and encouraged, not frowned upon.
Maybe Phat needs God to feel the required level of Accountability to be healthy.
Maybe someone else needs their respected boss for the same mental feeling.
Maybe someone else needs something else entirely.
These differences are only to indicate that "the feeling of Accountability" is required... not to indicate that any one source is better or best or wrong or anything like that.
When it comes down to it... "the feeling of Accountability" is similar to "the feeling of a favourite colour."
They may be because of our historical experiences, perhaps our physical DNA, maybe our current brain configuration - or likely a combination of all such things.
The point isn't to figure out why it's different and make it the same for everyone.
The point is to accept that it's different, and understand that it's okay for different people to need different things.
This is easy for people to accept for favourite colours. No one cares if Phat's favourite colour is red and Stile's is blue.
Why do people care so much if Phat needs God and Stile does not?
Regardless of whether or not Phat or Stile is colourblind - no one cares about a favourite colour choice.
Regardless of whether or not God actually exists - why do people care so much about a religious choice?
Fundamentally - the personal decision comes down to a feeling:
- Phat feels red is best, Stile feels blue is best.
- Phat feels God is best, Stile feels no God is best.
Remember... the context here is not whether or not God actually exists (I can understand the contention there...)
The context here is whether or not someone can have a feeling that makes them personally content and happy.
Why bother about what someone else feels in order to be content and happy?
I think that some people simply have trouble separating such a context.
They can understand someone can have a different favourite colour - because that feeling isn't personally important to them.
They do not want to understand that someone can have a different religion - because that feeling is very personally important to them.
This leads to a fear of not-being-valid (If someone else chooses differently, is my choice invalid?)
The important idea is to remember that no choice is invalid. Just as there is no objective "favourite colour" feeling... there is no objective "favourite religion" feeling - they are different for different people.
The ONLY difference is that one is socially deemed unimportant, and the other is deemed socially very important.
But our personal mental-health has no concerns over what society deems important, it only cares about the state of your personal mental health.
If you spend your time focusing your mental state on aligning with socially-accepted ideas... you'll eventually find yourself contradicting on something that needs to be a personally-accepted idea.
Figure out and accept your own personally-accepted ideas.
Allow others to have their own personally-accepted ideas.
You'll be mentally healthier, less worrisome and more focused for it.
I still find the topic extremely difficult to discuss. I find that my ideas do not want to become formed into proper sentences.
This is generally an indication that I haven't thought about and fully developed my own ideas on the topic, yet

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 01-05-2017 8:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 31 of 35 (797332)
01-17-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
01-16-2017 2:53 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
Part of opening yourself to God has a lot to do with submission and letting go.
I think this is an important aspect that should be "a part" of everyone's healthy mental state.
Situations and experiences are also generally different and nuanced, therefore they require a multitude of different strategies to navigate through them on a daily basis.
If you go around always controlling, always dictating what's going to happen... you'll find yourself losing touch with how to empathize with others.
If you go around always following, always bending to an outside will... you'll find yourself being swept away into other's worlds too much.
It's important to do a bit of both, and find out your own personal balance for how much of each you need in order to feel healthy.
There will be certain things you hold to be personally important - these you will need to exert a certain amount of personal control into them or else you'll feel like you're being swept away and pulled through life. An amount of resentment and frustration will build as you continually get pushed around on things you don't want to be doing. The results will always lead to stress and depression.
There will be other things you will find curious to explore or maybe an uncomfortable feeling about how to proceed through a non-threatening environment - this is where the submissive aspect can flourish. Let your self flow naturally through these situations, be led by external cues (from God, others, anything...) The sensation of letting go includes a feeling of freedom and relaxation that can be very powerful. It can be a source of inspiration and creativity contrary to a situation where you're controlling... where you're likely doing things you understand fairly well and therefore taking rather familiar, biased actions.
In my personal, non-professional opinion, of course
There's nothing wrong with opening yourself up and becoming submissive... to others, to God, to anything...
If it's something "newish" to you, then maybe it's something you've been missing in order to have a mentally healthy life.
Like anything... just keep your head up, and watch out for when you're doing it too much. Again, "too much" is your own limit. No one else can tell you where that is. And finding it may well take some trial and error.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2017 2:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-17-2017 3:04 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 33 of 35 (797352)
01-18-2017 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
01-17-2017 3:04 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
That sounds like what I've been learning about mindfulness in the difference between the thinking mind and the being mind. I've been running around with only the thinking mind forever now, and have just started learning how to tap into my being mind.
And then there's all sorts of stuff as you move along.
1 - Even if you "find your limits" there's nothing that says those limits/likes/dislikes can't change next week, next month, next year... People are generally fluid. We grow and adapt and change. Sometimes limits need to be re-tested, updated, re-evaluated. This is where meditation can be very helpful. And what if you want to change a limit, but you don't feel that you can? This is the sort of thing were we can "use our intelligence (mindful tools and such) to deal with or adapt our instincts (initial reactive feeling)." Serious, important tools like cognitive behavioral therapy or maybe easy, amateurish tools like focusing on and remembering a desired goal.
2 - Outside influences can sometimes be difficult to deal with. Just as a single example, let's take "being submissive." I think it's an important part of everyone that needs to be included at some level. However, there are many who would assume that anything associated with the word submissive is somehow weak or negative or otherwise 'something to avoid.' Because "they're a MAN!"
A man ("good person") isn't someone who is not submissive. To prove this, you can just look at the people who would say that being submissive is a negative thing - these sorts of people are not the kind of folk I'd look up to in order to be "a man." Being a man is a lot of things - doing what needs doing, and taking responsibility for your actions/choices. Not being afraid of social back-lash for doing something you know is right, or personally just find fun as a hobby. Things like that. Not things like "stay away from the colour pink!" Or "wear this blindfold and walk into traffic!" People who don't understand themselves, and get swept into the world of TV and entertainment might say such things... but, of course, there's no attachment to reality for it, as far as I can tell.
Now you're a man!
Oh, and I started playing Diablo 3 again. Apparently in the last few years they dumped the auction house, re-vamped the entire loot-drop system and it's super fun to play again! Wifey me and a buddy just started Season 9 (sort of like Diablo 2's "Ladders") and it's crazy fun! We've played, maybe... 5 nights? And we've had, like... 8-10 legendary drops each already... while leveling up. It's finally fun to play the actual game and get good loots!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-17-2017 3:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-18-2017 11:23 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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