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Author | Topic: The God That Paul Marketed Over Time. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: There IS, however, no doubt a true doctrine that we SHOULD be aiming for even if God forgives our falling short of it. I notice you keep making assertions like that but never provide any evidence to support that position. What evidence can you present that shows you know some true doctrine that happens to be different than Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism or the doctrine marketed by the Roman Catholic Church?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But Jesus was only trying to reform Judaism. He preached to the Jews, lived as a Jew, was born a Jew and died a Jew.
Yes, much of what Paul wrote really is word salad. But wait...there's more. When folk like you then take pieces parts out of it, when you quote mine, when you use proof texts you increase the destruction of any message that might have been there. Yes, you market source but never, ever present the actual content. Look at your post above. You once again failed to provide anything in the way of explanation. You do not explain what "preach Christ crucified" means or why it is of any import. The very next example you repeat the tactic. I say no one has ever explained something and you respond with another silly proof text that answers nothing, explains nothing. Sorry Phat but so far you have presented no content at all.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There is no confusion since they are the exact same thing.
AbE: It really is simple. Judaism and Islam and Christianity are simply a thousand or so entirely different religions worshiping the same entity. Edited by jar, : see AbE:
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar writes: If so, it would seem that you essentially believe that studying the Bible is all about studying writings of what early people wrote intended for other early audiences and that the modern audience is entirely out of the loop. True? I don't think anyone thinks Paul was marketing anything he believed was made up but the fact is that Paul never met Jesus or had any connection to Jesus and that the tale of his conversion as told in the Bible stories changed over time and depending on the audience. In other words, is it a fact that nobody alive on the planet today has "met Jesus"? I would argue that the results are only conclusive if hard evidence is the main standard. Almost correct. There is no loop. People today can learn from things written in the past but that does not mean any of that material was written for people other than the immediate audience at the time.
Phat writes: My argument all along has centered on faith and belief rather than evidence.
Heb 11:1-6 Evidence is not the only standard. The evidence is, in fact, the works themselves. Which lends support to your whole "Christianity is about what you do" argument.Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. But all of the evidence shows that "Christians" do not behave differently than any other demographic; they do not behave differently than Muslims or Buddhist or atheists or Taoists or animists or Hindus or agnostics or Satanists or Jews or ...
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Divorce rates, crime rates, gluttony, bigotry, homosexuality, vulgarity, taking the Lords name in vain, murder ... every measurable statistic known shows that Christians behave no differently than any other demographic.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yet those figures pale compared to the foreign aid supported by taxes from all demographics and in fact are still simply unsupported assertions. There are people who are not Christians that pass funding through Christian organizations.
However even if that were true it still does not show that Christians behave differently than any other demographic and is really telling that you would even select that as support. Funding for charities is not recorded based on the religious beliefs of the donor. For example, I personally donate to charities irrespective of whether or not they are religious organizations. So do other people. But look around. There is no way to tell a Christian from any other group based on behavior. Christians lie. Christian commit murder. Christians steal. Christians fornicate. Christians divorce. Christians have affairs. Christians molest children. Christians start fights. Christians behave just like anyone else.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And I pointed out that your post did not show that Christians behaved differently than any others.
Stop and think. How does the study you used show that Christians are more charitable than others?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: In reformed Judaism, behavior would count more than it would in evangelical Christianity. If so, then Evangelical Christianity is not following Jesus; if what you say is true then Evangelical Christianity is the Goats in Matthew 25.
Phat writes: Perhaps the question is what value do belief and trust have (if any) over behavior? Once you bring up "value" you need to start talking in measurable things. How do you weigh belief & trust?
Phat writes: Also...why is it that belief and trust...if embraced, do not lead to better behavior. And the answer is indicated in the issue just above. Belief & trust are imponderables. They are by definition incapable of being weighed or resolved or tested. They do not lead to anything other than faith and belief. Work has value. Deeds can be measured. Jesus did not say trust that the hungry will get fed, trust that the naked will get clothed, believe that the homeless will be sheltered, believe the weak will be protected, have faith that the sick will be healed and have faith that the sorrowful will get comforted; Jesus said feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, protect the weak, teach the children. Works can be measured. Works have results. Works actually do things.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: So does the lesson have meaning for us today? After all our days are numbered. Have we been weighed according to what we do? Tonto and the Lone Ranger were in danger. They were down to the last Silver Bullet and surrounded by thousands of Apaches. "Well, old friend," said the Lone Ranger, "It looks like we are doomed." "What do you mean 'We' Paleface?" replied Tonto. You need to understand the Book of Daniel. First, in the Jewish Canon it is NOT among the major Prophets and is in fact part of the Ketuvim, inspired writings but not prophecy. It is a classic apocalyptic writing, a divided work with a series of political court tales followed by a series of "End Times" narratives. Does it have meaning? Well yes, we can likely find meaning in almost anything. Is it prophetic? Hardly. And if it is, it is only because people desire to make it prophetic. But can anything be learned from it? Sure. A reminder that each of us should examine what WE do Individually is always wise.
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