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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 613 of 892 (795106)
12-06-2016 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Faith
12-06-2016 4:18 AM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
"Friend" is not the word Jesus used in the story of the good Samaritan. It certainly does not describe Muslim refugees. Helping Muslim refugees by bringing them into another culture is being an agent of violence, rape andmurder and subjugation of that culture.
Huh?
They are free to move back once the violence has subsided.
Islam is not just another religion, it's a totalitarian ideology that will not adapt to different cultures or respect other religions who to them are all "infidels."
Muslims have been in America since its inception. Also, you need a history lesson. Look up "Crusades".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 4:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 12:08 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 628 of 892 (795125)
12-06-2016 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by Faith
12-06-2016 12:08 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
Who is free to move back where?
Refugees are free to move back to their country of origin when it is safe enough.
Let me quess: You are actually arguing that because of the crusades we should let Muslims into the country to rape, riot, burn cars and murder us? And eventually take over the country for Allah?
I am arguing no such thing. I am arguing that Christianity has a long history of attacking other religions, setting up ideologic theocracies, and committing genocide in the name of religion. I find it interesting that you ignore that.
Also, the Crusades were a papal operation, nothing to do with the genuine Christianity which founded this country.
Christianity didn't found this nation. We are a constitutional republic, not a theocracy.
In any case it's you who need the lesson. I recommend the book I mentioned, "Philistine" by Ramon Bennett. He quotes Muslim leaders revealing the real agenda of Islam. The fact that some Muslims have adapted and not become radicalized is a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that Islam itself is a totalitarian ideology that refuses to adapt or respect other religions who are all "infidels." There is no way of knowing, either, whether apparently adapted Muslims have really adapted or are "sleepers," who would become jihadists once there are enough of them to make it effective. I'd only be reassured if they renounced Islam altogether.
Same could be said of Christians in this very country.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 12:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 4:28 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 629 of 892 (795126)
12-06-2016 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Faith
12-06-2016 2:18 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
It's hard to love an institution that has murdered millions out of TRUE intolerance, since they can't stand to have anyone who disagrees with them in the world.
Are you really this unaware of Christians doing just that throughout history?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 2:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 2:28 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 635 of 892 (795136)
12-06-2016 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 630 by Faith
12-06-2016 2:28 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
The instances of it by true Christians are few and far between and clearly not justified by Christian teaching.
They were as much True Christians as the people you speak of are True Muslims.
The Vatican/papacy is not Christian,
Yes, it is.
Islam was forced on Arabs at swordpoint by Mohammed, and that's how it continues in the world.
Christianity was forced onto Europeans at swordpoint by Charlemagne.
Massacre of Verden - Wikipedia
Please learn your history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 630 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 2:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 637 of 892 (795138)
12-06-2016 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 636 by Faith
12-06-2016 4:28 PM


Re: The Italian hotel owner
Faith writes:
Roman Catholicism is not Christian,
Yes, it is. Until you can accept this obvious fact, you are simply lying through your teeth.
The federal founding was founded by Deists, but it was founded by Christians in the sense that the original settlers were dedicated Christians, and it remained Christian in that the majority of the population through the founding generation and beyond by a century or so was strongly Christian, you could say the nation was a Christian nation.
That's like saying baseball was founded by Christianity since the guys who invented the game were Christians. One has nothing to do with the other.
In fact, a large part of the founding of the US was in direct response to the evils perpetrated by Christian theocracies. They went out of their way to PREVENT Christians from abusing power in the name of Christianity.
But I get the message. You'd rather be under Islam.
Yet another lie. I would rather be in a country that does not discriminate against people based on their religious beliefs.
Christianity does not seek to rule the world.
Learn your history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 4:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 638 by Faith, posted 12-06-2016 8:42 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 749 of 892 (795496)
12-13-2016 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 746 by caffeine
12-12-2016 1:59 PM


Re: My two cents
caffeine writes:
Reading this reminds me a lot of some American socialist friends 8 years ago; who were incredibly excited about Obama; and then by 2010 were complaining about being betrayed. But of course they hadn't been. Obama turned out to be the President that should have been expected if they'd paid attention.
As someone who is hoping to see socialist reforms, I didn't have high hopes for Obama in that regard. However, I was hoping for Obama to fight for the public option for Obamacare, but he folded on that one. Otherwise, Obama was exactly what he said he was, just a little left of center and looking for incremental change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 746 by caffeine, posted 12-12-2016 1:59 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 750 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2016 4:58 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 751 of 892 (795500)
12-13-2016 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 750 by Modulous
12-13-2016 4:58 PM


Re: My two cents
Modulus writes:
It wasn't really his decision though, was it?
Yes and no. He could have signaled that he would veto any bill that lacked a public option. He chose not to. In hindsight (and in a most foresights), the public option would have really helped with lowering costs in many states.
What I still find funny about the whole thing is how obvious the Republican's bias is. The Affordable Care Act is the Republican plan. It is almost identical to a plan the Republicans put forward with Clinton was in office. Funny how Obama repeats their own policies back to them, and the Republicans suddenly don't like that policy.
Individual States could still have a public option. Some States are even considering it.
Conservative states who reflexively rejected the ACA because it came from a Democrat are not going to offer public options, and they sure aren't going to extend Medicaid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 750 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2016 4:58 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 752 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2016 6:24 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 754 of 892 (795530)
12-14-2016 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 752 by Modulous
12-13-2016 6:24 PM


Re: My two cents
Modulous writes:
But what would that achieve? They didn't have the votes. The bill would not have passed with the public option, it wouldn't have even gone to a vote due to the fillibuster.
The opposite can be true as well. Why vote for a bill without the public option if it will just be vetoed? What would that achieve?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 752 by Modulous, posted 12-13-2016 6:24 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 755 by NoNukes, posted 12-14-2016 12:35 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 756 by Modulous, posted 12-14-2016 1:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 842 of 892 (797040)
01-10-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 832 by Faith
01-09-2017 9:44 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Faith writes:
The true claim is that Russia was responsible for exposing Clinton's emails (and other similar things I can never keep in mind) and in that way influenced the election by turning people against her.
Even that is seriously in doubt, however. I'm still waiting to see if Assange has anything to say about it since he SEEMED to promise to reveal the actual source.
The real question is why you are putting so much effort into exonerating Russia. Why is that? Why are Republicans flocking to Russia's aid? Don't you find that troubling?
Russia set up an air defense network in Syria. Last I checked, the Syrian rebels that Russia is fighting against have no airplanes. Who do you think those missiles are meant for? The really easy answer is that they are meant for US planes. Why are you defending a government that is threatening the US?
Russia has also attacked its neighbors. Russia has already taken over Crimea, and has attempted to retake Ukraine. While Putin is playing the role of Hitler, you cheer on as Trump plays the part of Neville Chamberlain. Why?
What is it about Russia that you find so wonderful?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 9:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 01-10-2017 11:19 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 859 of 892 (797064)
01-10-2017 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 844 by Faith
01-10-2017 11:19 AM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Faith writes:
It's the sort of thing that could start a war and I'd rather not start a war, especially over something that isn't even true;
It's as if Neville Chamberlain has been resurrected from the dead.
This is the same attitude that some politicians took towards Hitler. How did that work out?
Also, we already have more than we need to start a war, if we wanted to. Their meddling in our politics is the least of their sins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 01-10-2017 11:19 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 866 by Riggamortis, posted 01-11-2017 12:00 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 860 of 892 (797065)
01-10-2017 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 857 by Faith
01-10-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Faith writes:
The subject is not what Russia may be doing to provoke war. THAT'S ANOTHER SUBJECT. I'm talking about the validity of the intelligence report on Russian hacking of the election. Period.
It would seem to me that you made your mind up before looking at any evidence. Your basis for rejecting one person's findings over another is based solely on their support of Russia. Why are you supporting Russia?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 857 by Faith, posted 01-10-2017 3:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 869 of 892 (797092)
01-11-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 866 by Riggamortis
01-11-2017 12:00 AM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Riggamortis writes:
Perhaps the US could remove the beam from its own eye rather than pissing and moaning about Russia doing exactly what the US has been doing for decades? If meddling in another nations politics is a sin, then I suspect there's a special place in hell for the US.
That's a fair criticism, but for it to have weight we have to agree that Russia is behind the attack.
When the conservative right of American politics reflexively defends Russia from findings that put Russia in a bad light, what in the world is going on? We are talking about the Party of Reagan, for crying out loud. Would Reagan have bent over backwards to cover up Russian spying in the US, and talk about how Gorbachev is such a great leader simply because Ol' Gorby said nice things about Ronnie?
Both Russia and the US rolled around in the same global political pig sty for quite some time. None of us are clean nor should we pretend we are. However, at least we were both smart enough to have proxy governments battle it out in the past so we could both save face and avoid direct conflict. Now we are seeing direct attacks, which is something new.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 866 by Riggamortis, posted 01-11-2017 12:00 AM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 876 by Riggamortis, posted 01-11-2017 8:15 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 871 of 892 (797109)
01-11-2017 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 870 by Faith
01-11-2017 1:52 PM


Re: Colin Powell: 16 intelligence agencies agreed Iraq had WMD
Faith writes:
Sad to think we can't trust them.
I'm thinking you would trust them completely if they said something bad about a Democrat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 870 by Faith, posted 01-11-2017 1:52 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 872 by herebedragons, posted 01-11-2017 4:44 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 884 of 892 (797133)
01-12-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 876 by Riggamortis
01-11-2017 8:15 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Riggamortis writes:
I disagree, the charge of hypocrisy stands so long as the accusation is being made and the US is kicking up a stink about it.
I don't know if it is even hypocrisy. If the Russians caught the US red handed meddling in their elections then I think we would understand if the Russians were less than happy about it.
What I think troubles people more is that Russia tried to influence the elections, and it appears that it may have worked. The candidate they wanted to win has actually won.
In addition, one of Trumps campaign managers early in his Presidential bid, Paul Manafort, worked directly with the Russians to try and get their preferred candidate elected in Ukraine. In hind sight, that's some spooky shit.
I agree for the most part but using other countries as proxy battlegrounds is only smart from the US and Russia's perspective. From another perspective it's pretty bloody evil to go around using other countries and their people as cannon fodder for your economic proxy wars.
I completely agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 876 by Riggamortis, posted 01-11-2017 8:15 PM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 885 of 892 (797134)
01-12-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 881 by Riggamortis
01-11-2017 10:59 PM


Re: Evidence of Russia hacking
Riggamortis writes:
Then you've got the Clinton Foundation scam, if she was taking donations in return for favours from her govt position, that constitutes treason, no?
I believe that would be considered corruption, not treason. What you would need for such a charge is a clear quid pro quo which no one was ever able to demonstrate. The problem is that we could play the "If Game" and impugn the character of anybody we want.
Of course, that's why I have been careful to charge the US with hypocrisy rather than Taq or any individual American. The main reason I responded to his post was that it gave me the (false) impression that he saw it as black and white, US is good, Russia is bad.
A little hypocrisy isn't a bad thing. We are all hypocritical about one thing or another. We all think our families are the best. We forgive the actions of our close friends before we would forgive the same actions by a stranger. Hypocrisy is just part of being human. I'm not saying we should embrace it, but we should recognize it at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 881 by Riggamortis, posted 01-11-2017 10:59 PM Riggamortis has not replied

  
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