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Author | Topic: The God That Paul Marketed Over Time. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
But all of the evidence shows that "Christians" do not behave differently than any other demographic; they do not behave differently than Muslims or Buddhist or atheists or Taoists or animists or Hindus or agnostics or Satanists or Jews or ...
Unfortunately you are right. I would argue, however, that we can behave better. It takes work, however.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
jar writes: But all of the evidence shows that "Christians" do not behave differently than any other demographic; they do not behave differently than Muslims or Buddhist or atheists or Taoists or animists or Hindus or agnostics or Satanists or Jews or ... What evidence would that be? He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Divorce rates, crime rates, gluttony, bigotry, homosexuality, vulgarity, taking the Lords name in vain, murder ... every measurable statistic known shows that Christians behave no differently than any other demographic.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
That's still just your assertion. Where is the evidence and statistics you talk about?
How about looking at the statistics of how much foreign aid or local charity is done by Christians compared to any other demographic. For example in your country.quote: quote: Here is the site those quotes are from.
Who Gives Most to Charity He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yet those figures pale compared to the foreign aid supported by taxes from all demographics and in fact are still simply unsupported assertions. There are people who are not Christians that pass funding through Christian organizations.
However even if that were true it still does not show that Christians behave differently than any other demographic and is really telling that you would even select that as support. Funding for charities is not recorded based on the religious beliefs of the donor. For example, I personally donate to charities irrespective of whether or not they are religious organizations. So do other people. But look around. There is no way to tell a Christian from any other group based on behavior. Christians lie. Christian commit murder. Christians steal. Christians fornicate. Christians divorce. Christians have affairs. Christians molest children. Christians start fights. Christians behave just like anyone else.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9
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I have provided statistical data from a non-Christian source and you call them "unsupported assertions".
Here is what you have posted.
jar writes: But all of the evidence shows that "Christians" do not behave differently than any other demographic; they do not behave differently than Muslims or Buddhist or atheists or Taoists or animists or Hindus or agnostics or Satanists or Jews or ... You claim all the evidence supports what you say. You then said: jar writes: Divorce rates, crime rates, gluttony, bigotry, homosexuality, vulgarity, taking the Lords name in vain, murder ... every measurable statistic known shows that Christians behave no differently than any other demographic. Note you said "every" available statistic. I asked for you to show us the evidence in the first post and the statistics in the second and all you do is make further assertions, and accuse me of an unsupported assertion after I actually provided a non-biased source which you simply debunk because it doesn't agree with your assertion.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I have provided statistical data from a non-Christian source and you call them "unsupported assertions" Your stats might be more impressive if they were not simply South + Utah vs North. I don't think you've demonstrated much. Beyond that, many church goers participate in tithing which surely counts as part of their giving, but which only partially goes to real charitable causes rather than keeping the church light bill paid, and the pastor's car full of gas. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
double post
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
NN writes: Your stats might be more impressive if they were not simply South + Utah vs North. I don't think you've demonstrated much. Beyond that, many church goers participate in tithing which surely counts as part of their giving, but which only partially goes to real charitable causes rather than keeping the church light bill paid, and the pastor's car full of gas. Maybe, but this was also part of that same study.
quote: My main point however was not to even say that jar was wrong, but simply that he makes assertions, saying that his point is backed up by all statistics as well as the evidence without providing either and we should just automatically agree with him. Even after I pointed it out he did exactly the same thing in his subsequent post. He is constantly criticizing other posters for less than that.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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GDR writes: What evidence would that be? Well there's plenty of it out there if you look. If Christians actually lived their lives the way Jesus commanded them to, you expect to see an enormous difference in attitude and actions between a godless heathen like me and a pious prayer machine like you. But in fact, apart from the obviously religious rituals you undertake and I don't, I'd expect there to be little, in any difference in our moral behaviour. And this is what we find.
quote: Religion Doesn't Make People More Moral, Study Finds | Live Science Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And I pointed out that your post did not show that Christians behaved differently than any others.
Stop and think. How does the study you used show that Christians are more charitable than others?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
tangle writes: This brings up our ongoing argument about whether behavior counts or whether belief and trust count more.
If Christians actually lived their lives the way Jesus commanded them to, you expect to see an enormous difference in attitude and actions between a godless heathen like me and a pious prayer machine like you. But in fact, apart from the obviously religious rituals you undertake and I don't, I'd expect there to be little, in any difference in our moral behavior. jar writes: Stop and think. In reformed Judaism, behavior would count more than it would in evangelical Christianity. Perhaps the question is what value do belief and trust have (if any) over behavior? Also...why is it that belief and trust...if embraced, do not lead to better behavior.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: This brings up our ongoing argument about whether behavior counts or whether belief and trust count more. Not really, I was anwering the question about whether Christians are different to other people. On average, they're no better, no worse. Which shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone really.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
And my point was that the only discernable difference is in the area of belief and trust.
Which may mean nothing to someone who believes that God does not exist.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: And my point was that the only discernable difference is in the area of belief and trust. Which may mean nothing to someone who believes that God does not exist. Yes, as we can't see any difference between a believer and a non-believer's behaviours then the only difference is the beliefs themselves. I really recommend spending some time in a mental hospital if you want to see how what goes on in someone's mind can be totally imaginary, regardless of what the person themselves believe. I've personally met 4 Jesus Christs and one (white) Nelson Mandela. You are deluded, it's just a much more common and minor kind of delusion.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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