The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.

To me, it means that Jesus is the solution to my problems. Jesus is God made man. He understands everything i go through. He knows that if I get closer with Him, I will gain wisdom, patience, and the ability to solve many of my challenges. I dont trust the secular world and could not even imagine a life without belief.

Dr. James Rosscup wrote an entire book, Abiding in Christ [Zondervan]. He notes (pp. 106-126) that it includes both the concept of time and that of quality. The time factor means that this isn’t a quick fix to solve all your problems. It isn’t a remedy to pull off the shelf when things aren’t going well, only to be put back on the shelf once life is back on track. Abiding in Christ is a lifelong relationship with Him. You’re in it for the long haul.I suppose that now you will ask how to have a relationship with a man no longer on earth. The key here is to ask the Holy Spirit. Dont read the Bible as if you are studying ancient manuscripts written by humans.

Are you suggesting that Noah had to solve all of his own problems without Gods help?What does the scripture tell us about Pauls belief on Who runs the show---was it Paul or was it Christ?I would suggest that Noah could have done nothing without the help of a living God speaking to his heart,mind, and soul.

And the messenger is the message.

First of all you need to believe that He is listening. Prayer is the usual way to ask. Are you going to ask me how I know to whom I am talking?The answer again is belief. In essence, asking the Holy Spirit is the same as asking GOD the Father. Im not saying to be willfully ignorant. Many of us believe that the compilation known as the Bible is Gods way of speaking to humanity. If you have a better source, by all means tell us.And if you say logic, reason, and reality, I would argue that God gave us those things yet not to arrive at conclusions ourselves without Him. This presupposes that the Bible contains His wisdom and not simply stuff that humans made up.

Are you saying that millions of Christians are willfully ignorant in their quest to know and listen to GOD? Or are you saying that the GOD they claim to know is a figment of their imagination? While I've seen many deluded people...some who have even posted on this Forum...I would be stretching the conclusion were I to agree that the bible is as you say.Im not saying that you dont have some evidence to support your claim, but I am challenging the conclusions that you have arrived at. Now as to how to refute your claim and support my own is the challenge...and I will admit it won't be easy to do. I could of course cite many of the scholars and men and women who have read the bible as much as you have and yet who have concluded differently. For evidence, I could offer stories of many who get along just fine believing that the Lord Jesus is alive through the words of the books. I could even claim that the world is involved in a spiritual war of sorts...though i have no solid proof as of yet that this is happening. As you have recently said, you follow the evidence wherever it may lead whereas I try and gather evidence only to support my position.You claim that you are likely wrong in your idea of who and what GOD is and does, and I would be wise to also lay my certainty of my belief on the proverbial altar.All that I have in my defense is that what I believe, how I pray, and most importantly what i DO is the result of an examined faith. In answer to your ongoing question of what it means to allow the living Christ to abide in me, all I can offer is my life as evidence. I feel that I am trying to do the best that I am capable of doing.

But this is inconclusive. How Do You Know We Are Not Communicating? God has motive. he wants to get us to know ourselves and him. He wants to be in communion. He has means. And He has opportunity.

Your bias is showing here. As I may have said before, your whole interpretation of what jesus said and did...Matthew 25 included...portrays Jesus message as nothing more than reformed judaism. Are you saying that Pauls writings are little more than word salad to you? Talk about willful ignorance! I would quote scripture, but you somehow see it as word salad. I am talking Source and you are talking Content, but even if I agree with you that the content is the issue, I cannot add anything to what the scripture (of Paul) plainly says. You seem to think Paul is some sort of salesman that attempted to usurp Judaism and the "being a good Jew (or Christian) is based entirely on what you do...not what you believe." It would come from someone who was not of this world. Perhaps. I would argue, however, that if Christ were not of this world...as He says...and if He came into the world to testify to the truth, that scripture itself is not confined to worldly wisdom. Would you also say that the Jesus we speak of is a creation of our own minds, bias, and desire? If so, you cannot claim that the Jesus you speak of is in any way more representative of anything more than your bias towards reformed judaism and personal responsibility. As you have said before, He is to you a failed Messiah. It appears that you now preach that we are all responsible for ushering in a Messianic Age. It can no more be determined than it can that Jesus is communicating from God to humanity in Matthew 25. You are biased towards Matthew 25 because it emphasizes personal responsibility. I have nothing against personal responsibility but I do have an issue with you teaching us that we create the Gods we preach. Yes there are....which is why I doubt we will ever agree. Just because humans wrote it down does not mean that humans made it up. As long as we stick to the Bible, we can safely say we ourselves are not making any new things up! Yes i do. I've gotten your point about belief being no good without action. Evidence is not the only means to be convinced. Depends what standard you base superiority on. To me, it all gets back to 1 Thessalonians again. The evidence in this case was the actions of the people themselves.
You may argue that the reports themselves are simply stories and not real evidence... Can the reports of what was said qualify as communication? If not, all you will ever have is woo. Of course it is significant. Spending time discussing this stuff is significant or i may as well go fishing! Well as I may have said before, you have to be seeking evidence for a valid reason. Edited by Phat, : corrected broken quote

One quick point that I will say is that among believers there are people on all ends of the political spectrum. God is not an exclusive revelation only to the political right.I happen to be a political moderate myself. Christian Left

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The most common religious viewpoint which might be described as ‘left wing’ is social justice, or care for the poor and the oppressed. Supporters of this might encourage universal health care, welfare provision, subsidized education, foreign aid, and Affirmative Action for improving the conditions of the disadvantaged. Stemming from egalitarian values (and what Jesus Himself said), adherents of the Christian left consider it part of their religious duty to take actions on behalf of the oppressed.

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The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important.

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Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky

Indeed this is one of the contentions that we argue about.When Paul addressed the Philippians, he said This does not sound like they were stuck building their own Ark...at least not without some guidance and help. Allow me to ask you a question. You say there is no God. It then would follow that you preach that it is what we do that counts....not so much what we believe. While i won't argue against the idea that works are an integral part of ones purpose and meaning in life, I will forever challenge your atheistic notions. What do you have against belief, apart from the unpardonable sin known as lack of evidence? The root(Jesus) nourishes our soul...and we willingly and dutifully do good works so as to nourish Him.

If so, it would seem that you essentially believe that studying the Bible is all about studying writings of what early people wrote intended for other early audiences and that the modern audience is entirely out of the loop. True?In other words, is it a fact that nobody alive on the planet today has "met Jesus"? I would argue that the results are only conclusive if hard evidence is the main standard.My argument all along has centered on faith and belief rather than evidence. Evidence is not the only standard. The evidence is, in fact, the works themselves. Which lends support to your whole "Christianity is about what you do" argument.

Unfortunately you are right. I would argue, however, that we can behave better. It takes work, however.

This brings up our ongoing argument about whether behavior counts or whether belief and trust count more. In reformed Judaism, behavior would count more than it would in evangelical Christianity.Perhaps the question is what value do belief and trust have (if any) over behavior?Also...why is it that belief and trust...if embraced, do not lead to better behavior.

And my point was that the only discernable difference is in the area of belief and trust.Which may mean nothing to someone who believes that God does not exist.

So does the lesson have meaning for us today? After all our days are numbered. Have we been weighed according to what we do?