Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 120 (8779 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-18-2017 4:11 PM
359 online now:
Faith, Joe T, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle, Tanypteryx, Taq, xongsmith (8 members, 351 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: BruceR.Fenton
Post Volume:
Total: 816,355 Year: 20,961/21,208 Month: 1,394/2,326 Week: 730/345 Day: 92/161 Hour: 1/7

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1314151617
18
Author Topic:   The God That Paul Marketed Over Time.
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 256 of 267 (797176)
01-13-2017 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
01-13-2017 12:51 PM


what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Phat writes:

In reformed Judaism, behavior would count more than it would in evangelical Christianity.

If so, then Evangelical Christianity is not following Jesus; if what you say is true then Evangelical Christianity is the Goats in Matthew 25.

Phat writes:

Perhaps the question is what value do belief and trust have (if any) over behavior?

Once you bring up "value" you need to start talking in measurable things. How do you weigh belief & trust?

Phat writes:

Also...why is it that belief and trust...if embraced, do not lead to better behavior.

And the answer is indicated in the issue just above.

Belief & trust are imponderables. They are by definition incapable of being weighed or resolved or tested. They do not lead to anything other than faith and belief.

Work has value. Deeds can be measured. Jesus did not say trust that the hungry will get fed, trust that the naked will get clothed, believe that the homeless will be sheltered, believe the weak will be protected, have faith that the sick will be healed and have faith that the sorrowful will get comforted; Jesus said feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, protect the weak, teach the children.

Works can be measured. Works have results. Works actually do things.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 01-13-2017 12:51 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 6:35 AM jar has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4257
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 257 of 267 (797190)
01-13-2017 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by jar
01-13-2017 6:53 AM


Re: Pauls Belief
jar writes:

And I pointed out that your post did not show that Christians behaved differently than any others.
Stop and think.

How does the study you used show that Christians are more charitable than others?

First off, the point wasn't essentially about you being right or wrong. It is just that you post your assertions as fact, saying that the evidence and all the statistics back you up without posting any evidence or statistics, and then over several posts refuse to provide any. It is the sort of thing you delight in criticizing others for.

However, I'd suggest that just maybe you're going to the wrong church. In spending time with those in my church I see people committed to their marriages, and are committed to serving the community and the world with both time and money. I realize that is anecdotal and doesn't mean much in the larger picture but my personal experience in living and attending church in a variety of locations in Canada is that there is a marked difference in the behaviour and attitudes of those from the church group of friends and my secular group of friends.

As far as the study I posted. it points out that the areas in the US that are more inclined to be religious, out give the non-religious areas by a fairly large margin, including even to secular charitable organizations. You can make what you like out of the study.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 01-13-2017 6:53 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 258 of 267 (797248)
01-16-2017 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by jar
01-13-2017 3:20 PM


Re: what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Jewish Encyclopedia writes:

Words written by a mysterious hand on the wall of Belshazzar's palace, and interpreted by Daniel as predicting the doom of the king and his dynasty. The incident is described as follows: Once when King Belshazzar was banqueting with his lords and drinking wine from the golden vessels of the Temple of Yhwh, a man's hand was seen writing on the wall certain mysterious words. Frightened by the apparition, the king ordered his astrologers to explain the inscription; but they were unable to read it. Daniel was then summoned to the royal palace; and the king promised him costly presents if he would decipher the inscription. Daniel read it "Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin" and explained it to mean that God had "numbered" the kingdom of Belshazzar and brought it to an end; that the king had been weighed and found wanting; and that his kingdom was divided and given to the Medes and Persians (Dan. v. 1-28).

So does the lesson have meaning for us today? After all our days are numbered. Have we been weighed according to what we do?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by jar, posted 01-13-2017 3:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 06-11-2017 7:21 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13435
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 259 of 267 (797279)
01-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
01-09-2017 6:17 PM


Re: Left Right Left
Faith writes:

Rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's sounds to me like Jesus' distancing Himself from the things of government rather than saying anything about how government should be run.


Distancing Himself, maybe, but distancing US, no. Do you seriously advocate that Christians in a democracy should distance themselves from government?

Faith writes:

As I said Jesus did not address the state, He did not address government at all.


As I said, He addresses OUR ATTITUDE toward the state. He said that WE should acknowledge the state.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 01-09-2017 6:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13435
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 260 of 267 (797280)
01-16-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
01-11-2017 12:15 PM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:

What do you have against belief, apart from the unpardonable sin known as lack of evidence?


That's like asking what I have against death other than that it's fatal.

How many fatal flaws do you need?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 01-11-2017 12:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9574
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 261 of 267 (797383)
01-19-2017 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by ringo
01-16-2017 10:52 AM


Re: He completes the work in us
how can you possibly equate belief with death? Your example does not compute!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by ringo, posted 01-16-2017 10:52 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-19-2017 11:23 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13435
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 262 of 267 (797387)
01-19-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-19-2017 10:34 AM


Re: He completes the work in us
Phat writes:

how can you possibly equate belief with death? Your example does not compute!


I didn't "equate" belief with death.

You asked what I have against belief - apart from lack of evidence. Again, that's like asking what I have against jumping off a cliff - apart from breaking every bone in my body. Or asking what I have against serial killers - apart from them killing all of those people. Or asking what I have against losing my job - except that I'll be out on the street begging for spare change.

When there's a really, really bad consequence for something, why do I need a reason "apart" from that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:34 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 263 of 267 (811712)
06-10-2017 11:39 PM


double post

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 264 of 267 (811713)
06-10-2017 11:40 PM


Paul is definitely worshipped by the slanted perverse out of tune Protestants of today. They put his words before the Lords words, because the two differ so much, and the church wants to be accepted and be part of the state religion, and be protected by the state.

Paul was nationalistic, and Jewsih oriented. He wanted success and numbers at any cost and Paul wanted to be the leader, when Jesus was suppose to lead them not Paul. Jesus words and Spirit were suppose to lead them and not Pauls comporomising contradictory words that confuse and make Christians doubt and become spineless whimps.


Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:45 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 265 of 267 (811714)
06-10-2017 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Davidjay
06-10-2017 11:40 PM


Paul in many writings opposes Jesus and His WORDS
I was leary of writing this to such a unruly crowd, composed of so many disbelievers, but seeing some are interested in this true topic, let us proceed and let the chips fall where they may.

besides it might answer a few questions of true believers who got fed up with the false church system and slid into false other religions like evolution, atheism, and the like.

Lets blast the church system as Jesus di and see what happens and what common ground we can attain.... in truth, experiences, sscriptures etc..

I wrote these articles on Pauls false writings... that opposed Jesus'

Obey Christ's Commandments not Pauls
(by Quincey)

Moses Prophesy against Israel
All Israel will Not be Saved
Only Faith Liberates
How to Get Faith
Group Faith versus Individual Faith
Group Faith
Geneology means Nothing
Forget Bloodlines
One People of God not Two
Worshipping Scripture
What is Scripture
David Jay Jordan
Paul versus Jesus
Home - Prophecy - Sexual
Anti-widow Paul
Paul's Dress Code versus the Lord's
Fleeing Paul's Fornication
Paul's Contradictory Flesh Verses
Paulian Sexual Church Background

Paul promoted Nationalism
Wives submit to Husbands Fallacy
Sometimes Paul wrote his opinion rather than
the Lord's .....

1Corinthians 7:6 But I speak this by
permission,and NOT of commandment.

And yet church people worship His opinions
about women, inequality, anti- sexuality,
nationalism and patriotism as if they were the
WORD OF GOD
Paul favored Israel, Jesus did not
Paul was a great apostle in being chosen
to reach the Gentiles as a missionary, but
his words and opinions are not to be
worshipped as law when they contradict
what the Lord said and did.
Home


Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:40 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29182
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 266 of 267 (811726)
06-11-2017 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Phat
01-16-2017 6:35 AM


Re: what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Phat writes:

So does the lesson have meaning for us today? After all our days are numbered. Have we been weighed according to what we do?

Tonto and the Lone Ranger were in danger. They were down to the last Silver Bullet and surrounded by thousands of Apaches.

"Well, old friend," said the Lone Ranger, "It looks like we are doomed."

"What do you mean 'We' Paleface?" replied Tonto.

You need to understand the Book of Daniel.

First, in the Jewish Canon it is NOT among the major Prophets and is in fact part of the Ketuvim, inspired writings but not prophecy. It is a classic apocalyptic writing, a divided work with a series of political court tales followed by a series of "End Times" narratives.

Does it have meaning?

Well yes, we can likely find meaning in almost anything.

Is it prophetic? Hardly. And if it is, it is only because people desire to make it prophetic.

But can anything be learned from it? Sure. A reminder that each of us should examine what WE do Individually is always wise.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 6:35 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Davidjay, posted 06-11-2017 9:45 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 267 of 267 (811731)
06-11-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by jar
06-11-2017 7:21 AM


Re: what does Mene, mene tekel upharsin mean?
Jar, the denier, says Daniel is not a major prophet nor even a prophet....

Why because the Book of Daniel, is mathematical exact truths, that absolutely prove Jesus was the Messiah, and that prophecy shows the DESIGN of TIME. Both evolutionists and their sister religion atheism hate this truth and fight it to the hilt, with denials and censorship.

For that and those prophecies from Daniel were censored from being discussed HERE, because of its exactness and because it is the basic timeframes for all prophecies of the exact and scientific and mathematical DESIGNER of TIME and designer of all THINGS and ALL CREATIONS.

SEE http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19415

Mene Mene Teckel Uppharsin means, Jar, 'You have been weighed in the balance and have been found wanting'

The almighty babylonians were destroyed in their feasting that very night... the writing was on the wall... and the Lord took them.

How very appropriate that the Lord brought this truthful saying to your mind Jar. It shall be fulfilled.

Do consider repenting and changing your atitude and behaviour.

Your choice, your responsibility, your feasting and mockery will not last forever.

IHS

David

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 06-11-2017 7:21 AM jar has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
1314151617
18
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017