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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 181 of 4573 (797630)
01-24-2017 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by RAZD
01-24-2017 2:45 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
Perhaps the politicians should be audited annually to show that their earning are honest and not graft or corruption. That is the concern, yes?
I believe the concern that NoNukes is addressing is that only people who were already rich would be able to become elected officials. If the President earned minimum wage, Trump would have little incentive to raise it. He was vastly wealthy beforehand, after all.
Once upon a time, members of Parliament in the UK did not receive any compensation. They were all wealthy gentlemen in no need of such trifles. Pay for elected officials was originally a socialist policy, strongly opposed by conservatives who much preferred Parliament to be packed with people who had no need of gainful employment, being rich already.
In the late 19th century organisations like the Labour Representation Council and Labour Electoral Association grew out of trade unions to campaign for the election of working-men to Parliament. But campaigning was only part of the purpose. They were also aware that they needed to fundraise in order to pay for the upkeep of any socialist MP they actually succeeded in electing, since he would be required to quit his job in order to attend Parliament.
I would agree that the pay of the President and congresspeople are too high, but they do need to paid enough that it would be feasible for a poor person to quit their job and up sticks to Washington.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by RAZD, posted 01-24-2017 2:45 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 4573 (797679)
01-25-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by RAZD
01-24-2017 2:45 PM


Re: Reaction: The Trump Inauguration
Perhaps the politicians should be audited annually to show that their earning are honest and not graft or corruption. That is the concern, yes
That would be my concern. I'm not sure what are the concerns of folks are who just don't want politicians to make lots of money after they leave office doing honest, "ungrafty", non-corrupt things like writing books or doing speaking tours.
400K is too much? I totally get that.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 183 of 4573 (797727)
01-26-2017 7:29 AM


The Wall
During the election it was often said that Trump detractors took Trump literally but not seriously, while Trump supporters took him seriously but not literally. Well, it turns out we should all have been taking Trump seriously *and* literally. He's actually moving ahead with The Wall.
Sample article: Donald Trump: We will build the wall with Mexico now
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 01-26-2017 7:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 184 of 4573 (797729)
01-26-2017 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Percy
01-26-2017 7:29 AM


Re: The Wall
And it will be interesting. For example the proposed wall goes right through the water treatment plant of a city down here and would cut off access to the water treatment plant by the city. It also goes right through several homes.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 185 of 4573 (797730)
01-26-2017 8:32 AM


Investigations
I'm quite interested in Trump's announcement that he's going to launch an investigation into mass voter fraud.
This strikes me as a potential pitfall.
I start from the assumption that there is no mass voter fraud. There's no evidence of any, and I understand that people have looked for some.
This leaves Trump with 2 choices - get his people to "investigate"; or get the appropriate arm of government to investigate (not sure of US jurisdictional law here, but am assuming it's the FBI).
If his people "investigate", that's safe, and he can claim he didn't want to burden the taxpayer with an effectively meaningless investigation (though I understand voter fraud is a federal crime). It does rather de-legitimise the "investigation" though.
If however he gets the FBI to investigate, then assuming they find at most 2 or 3 cases (rather than the 2.3m he's claiming), where does that leave him ?
He can't accept such a finding - he is seeking to avoid challenges to legitimacy, and the better move would have been to simply drop the issue if he had no Plan B.
So what do we think his Plan B is ?
Try to get the FBI to bald faced lie ? Dangerous, and with insufficient actual evidence and lots of people having to be in on it (risking imprisonment for Trump), not a likely outcome.
Brush the result under the rug and hope people will forget about it ? Possibly, particularly if he can get it strung out for 3 years ?
Or my personal choice, use a failure to dig up any evidence to attack the FBI for bias, and possibly use it to force the replacement of top brass he doesn't like.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 186 of 4573 (797731)
01-26-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by vimesey
01-26-2017 8:32 AM


Re: Investigations
This leaves Trump with 2 choices - ...
So what do we think his Plan B is ?
Try to get the FBI to bald faced lie ? Dangerous, and with insufficient actual evidence and lots of people having to be in on it (risking imprisonment for Trump), not a likely outcome.
Brush the result under the rug and hope people will forget about it ? Possibly, particularly if he can get it strung out for 3 years ?
Or my personal choice, use a failure to dig up any evidence to attack the FBI for bias, and possibly use it to force the replacement of top brass he doesn't like.
Plan C -- to lie about the results and suppress the actual results.
I'm quite interested in Trump's announcement that he's going to launch an investigation into mass voter fraud.
I would hope that it opens the door to investigate election fraud. If they are checking the registrations for voters with multiple registrations and dead people, doesn't it also open the door to purged registrations and denied registrations?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 187 of 4573 (797735)
01-26-2017 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by RAZD
01-26-2017 9:13 AM


Re: Investigations
RAZD writes:
If they are checking the registrations for voters with multiple registrations and dead people, doesn't it also open the door to purged registrations and denied registrations?
The answer, of course, is no. The investigation can be limited by the investigators chosen and the areas they are allowed to investigate.
quote:
The national liberal media won’t print that, or air it, or post it, Smith said. Better to get your news directly from the president. In fact, it might be the only way to get the unvarnished truth.
Lamar Smith; chairman of the House Science, Space and Technology Committee

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 188 of 4573 (797756)
01-26-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by vimesey
01-26-2017 8:32 AM


Re: Investigations
Remember this is the President of Alternative Facts.
I would be surprised if any investigation occurs. Facts are inconvenient to a salesman. Remember he's a developer that turn politician, the sale is all that counts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by vimesey, posted 01-26-2017 8:32 AM vimesey has not replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 189 of 4573 (797762)
01-26-2017 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by 14174dm
01-26-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Investigations
I would be surprised if any investigation occurs. Facts are inconvenient to a salesman. Remember he's a developer that turn politician, the sale is all that counts.
He is also a megalomaniac that can't stand evidence that shows he is an incompetent fatuous idiot with orange hair.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(3)
Message 190 of 4573 (797771)
01-26-2017 3:14 PM


2.5 minutes til midnight now.
Dooms day clock is set closer to midnight.
Ya know I was only joking about accelarationism honest.
The doomsday clock has been moved closer to midnight in part due to more strident nationalism and comments made by DJT.
It seems with every passing day the news is getting grimmer for Instance most of the senior staff at the State Dept quitting and Mexico's President cancelling his meeting with DJT.
I think I'm gonna stop watching the news for a while.
Some one post if they hear anything about mass runs on the bank.
Doomsday Clock Moves Closer to Midnight, in Part Because of Trump, Scientists Announce - ABC News
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.
Edited by 1.61803, : spelling

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 4573 (797773)
01-26-2017 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by 1.61803
01-26-2017 3:14 PM


Re: 2.5 minutes til midnight now.
Some one post if they hear anything about mass runs on the bank.
By the time we heard about it there would be nothing left.
Whats really odd is that the Christian Right TV crowd believe that a prophecy from 2007 indicates DJT was predicted to win back then and will serve two terms.
Prophecy

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by 1.61803, posted 01-26-2017 3:14 PM 1.61803 has replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 192 of 4573 (797774)
01-26-2017 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Phat
01-26-2017 5:27 PM


Re: 2.5 minutes til midnight now.
Hi Phat,
Coincidence?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 193 of 4573 (797780)
01-27-2017 5:54 AM


And 180 degrees to the right...
The wide polarization between the Trump haters and Trump lovers continues to amaze me. Just about everything that's said about him here is the opposite of what I would say.
Is he lying about the size of the inauguration crowd? Well, I hadn't heard that he claimed it was bigger than Obama's, it seems pretty well known that Obama's outdid all other Presidents in that respect. What I heard was that he complained that the standard media photographed the crowd in such a way that its actual size was reduced. And at least one reporter I heard (conservative radio) who was covering the event, mentioned that there was a sea of people gathering behind him, which sounds like a good sized crowd.
And here's a case where some here would call him thin-skinned for caring about the size of the crowd, which to my mind is just another mean-spirited take on what I see as his determination not to let the media get away with lies. Nothing to do with thin skin, all about his determination to call out the media. As he did with that CNN reporter in his first press conference, refusing to take a question from him and calling him "fake news" because CNN had reported on the in/sane attempt to smear him with the Russian prostitute story. So I see him as refusing to let his detractors get away with their lies, and I applaud him. But those who are determined to put the worst possible spin on everything don't have the integrity to recognize that it is they who are at fault.
Trump makes a lot of us very happy. Finally we have a President who actually cares about America and cares about Americans and is clearly working hard already to do as much good to the nation as he can. In the teeth of leftist suspiciousness and lies. I find that admirable. Every executive order he's signed this last week is good fo the nation,* and that means good for all the naysayers as well, which you might recognize if you'd ever be able to get your head out of that toxic cloud of hatred against Trump and his supporters that emanates from the standard media.
That's a black joke, that moving the clock to closer to midnight. Based on what? Leftist fears invented out of nothing. Trump is a reasonable sane human being who is working for the good of the nation.
The leftist media are working up lies about Trump's stated objectives concerning illegal aliens, by pretending he's a threat to legal immigrants. Who was it, Cuomo's son who said they should start with him if they are going to deport immigrants? What utter evil lying in/sanity. Trump wants to deport CRIMINALS among the ILLEGAL ALIENS, he's very supportive of legal immigrants, and even toward the iillegal ones who are not criminals and are good workers and otherwise good citizens, who might be considered eligible for legal status as things progress on Trump's agenda. The media lies and lies and lies.
I guess Trum's detractors want their one world socialist order that bad, they hate America that much.
Yes. Sad.
What about the voter fraud investigation? Well, conservatives are objecting to that too, on the ground that there isn't any real evidence, but as I recall it was months ago that some researcher originally claimed to have found evidence of some three million illegal aliens voting. I don't know if any investigation could produce convincing evidence one way or the other, but since it's been seriously suggested I see no reason to assume Trump is doing anything other than promoting whatever is possible to find out the truth. Again, just can't stand the idea he lost? Nonsense, Trump really is interested in finding out the truth, and if it does turn out that they can show the allegations of fraud to be correct, wouldn't the left profit from that knowledge too? Shouldn't measures be taken to better protect the voting system from fraud?
ABE *His idea about how Mexico is going to contribute to the cost of the wall has been questioned by many, and rightly I think, since imposing a high tariff on Mexican goods is going to have Americans paying for the wall, not Mexico. But maybe we'll hear a correction to that idea soon.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 7:05 AM Faith has replied
 Message 197 by 14174dm, posted 01-27-2017 8:52 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 194 of 4573 (797782)
01-27-2017 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Faith
01-27-2017 5:54 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
Is he lying about the size of the inauguration crowd? Well, I hadn't heard that he claimed it was bigger than Obama's, it seems pretty well known that Obama's outdid all other Presidents in that respect.
You tell us you hadn't heard something, and then launch into a tirade against the left as if your ignorance is the basis for anything. Let's just debunk the thrust of your tirade with facts. Trump did indeed send Spicer out to announce that Trump's inauguration was the largest ever. The fact that you did not hear about that means absolutely nothing.
Spicer's nonsense claims:
quote:
This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration period both in person and around the globe
The first claim was certainly not true, and who knows whether the second one was true.
quote:
This was the first time in our nation’s history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall. That had the effect of highlighting any areas where people were not standing, while in years past the grass eliminated this visual.
Nope, those same covering were used at Obama's last inauguration.
In addition, Spicer cited complete nonsense stacks about metro train ridership, numbers which underestimated both Trump and Obama numbers. Obama's numbers dwarfed those of folks trying to see Trump's inauguration. Of course, you've already admitted that everyone knows the facts.
So yeah, Trump did claim foolishly to have had the largest inauguration crowds ever. He sent his press secretary out to deliver the lie. To Spicer's credit, he seemed very chagrined about his lies the following day. Quite obviously he does not like lying.
Trump makes a lot of us very happy.
I'm well aware of that. Must be great not having an African Muslim for a president, huh?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 5:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 01-27-2017 7:20 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 195 of 4573 (797783)
01-27-2017 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by NoNukes
01-27-2017 7:05 AM


Re: And 180 degrees to the right...
I'm well aware of that. Must be great not having an African Muslim for a president, huh?
Aw, there it is, the Leftist lying spin. What's really really great is not having an America-hating racist Commie Muslim for a President and having an America-loving sane human being for a President. And it would be SO nice if what Martin Luther King advocated about judging people by their character and not their skin might actually become the reality it should be and was until Obama took us back to the racist swill on everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 7:05 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Percy, posted 01-27-2017 7:52 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 202 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2017 12:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
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