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Author Topic:   Some evidence for voter fraud
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1 of 129 (797861)
01-28-2017 10:04 AM


I'd start a coffee house thread on this but I'm banned from the coffee house so I'm putting it here.
Here are a couple of Infowars reports on evidence for voter fraud including the claim by Trump of millions of illegals voting. It's mostly quotes from various studies over the last few years, and it's mostly video so pinning down the facts from among the other stuff is very tedious and I'm not up to it right now. Maybe I can come back later and fill it in. So this is preliminary but I think there is enough here to raise serious questions about the integrity of the "mainstream" media in reporting this.
For now all I can do is ask that people take the time to listen to the reports because it's just about the only place you are going to hear anything that contradicts the "mainstream" media lies.
http://www.infowars.com/...als-voting-and-swinging-elections
http://www.infowars.com/...udulent-registered-voters-in-2016''
A written report on the same info from the same page:
A study revealing that over 800,000 non-citizens voted for Hillary Clinton doesn’t account for dead and fraudulent voters, which accounted for over 25 million registered voters duringthe 2012 presidential election — and little has changed since then.
Illegal alien voters combined with dead and multiple state voters could easily explain Clinton’s popular vote margin over Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, especially considering that her victory came from Democratic-controlled counties known for illegal immigration and loose voter ID laws such as in New York and California.
The Pew study found that almost 3 million people are registered to vote in more than one state, NPR added.
There was a report on the Drudge Report of a study that showed that there were 800,000 illegals who voted for Hillary, which is considered to be one of many different studies that together add up to the millions that Trump is claiming. For some reason I can't find this report on Drudge and my eyes keep giving out in the effort.
And if I can I will come back and add evidence on the numbers that attended the inauguration. At the moment I can say I've heard that the photo offered in proof of extremely low attendance at Trump's inauguration is false, and it looked false to me when I first saw it. There are even a few possible clues in the photo itself, a few identical trees in both the Obama and Trump pictures for instance, eight years apart yet. And don't such surveillance photos normally have the date and time stamped onto the film rather than added later as is clearly the case here? And another thought is that people were still arriving after the time given on the supposed Trump film, if the film even counts at all. I myself haven't doubted that Obama's attendance was much larger so I apparently disagree with Trump's information. Doesn't make my sources right or his right either. Something to find out.
I understand more evidence is required so I hope to come up with it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 01-28-2017 11:44 AM Faith has replied
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 3:10 PM Faith has replied
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 4:46 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3 of 129 (797863)
01-28-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
01-28-2017 11:44 AM


OK

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 7 of 129 (797873)
01-28-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
01-28-2017 3:10 PM


The discussions at Infowars took into account the age of the data. And of course it's obvious that 800,000 is not three to five million, nobody is overlooking that. They are talking about having MANY studies from different locations in different years, which they'll be covering over some time.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 10 of 129 (797876)
01-28-2017 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by RAZD
01-28-2017 4:46 PM


Re: Inaugeration Crowd
I keep trying to compare the pictures with each other and am finding it hard to find clear points of reference, making it very hard to judge the soze pf the crpwds.
I still don't really know what degree of authenticity to assign to the long shots, or what numbers are represented by them.
But I don't need Trump's crowd to be as large as Obama's, I've said I don't think it was, though Trump may have thought it was; and that looks like a pretty huge crowd to me in any case.
But what would help put things in perspective is to see the original pictures Trump was objecting to as showing the crowd from some perspective that in his judgment minimized the actual numbers, based on his view from his position up front. I don't see anything in these photos that makes that comparison.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 13 of 129 (797879)
01-28-2017 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
01-28-2017 5:19 PM


I'm afraid I'm sort of getting dragged along in this discussion because I haven't had the time to really get into it. I was away for weeks becauser my computer had crashed and am now trying to deal with accumulated emails and other problems that a computer crash creates. So I'm just giving quick impressions. I should probably not post until I get more of a grip on it.
Something I left out of my previous post: The two pictures you said to identify by the presence of the monument are not so easy to judge because the distances are different.
I posted the OP because I thought there WAS enough evidence for a start, though I said I knew more was needed, so you can refrain from accusing me of spreading false information.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say legitimate voters are getting disenfranchised by voter ID. Voter ID is intended of course to keep illegitimate people from voting, and the kind of problem you are talking about either doesn't exist or is some kind of glitch that needs correction, but which shouldn't be a monumental task.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 01-28-2017 7:22 PM Faith has replied
 Message 15 by NoNukes, posted 01-28-2017 8:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 9:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 129 (797894)
01-29-2017 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:51 PM


The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
Why does he care that much? [about the crowd size]
I keep trying to tell you it is not about the crowd size per se, it's about his perception that the media lied about it in its original reports. And this original motivation of his has still not been addressed here as far as I know -- we'd need to see the original pictures he saw and I don't know if that's in any of the ones shown here. All these pictures MAY go some distance to demonstrate what the crowd size actually was (or maybe not very far really), but that misses the point that Trump's concern is the lying media, and that the original impression of the crowd they gave was far far short of the actuality as seen from Trump's location at the front of the crowd. The actual numbers may or may not have much to do with this.
Trump and his supporters consider the media to be his real political opponent, and ours -- we no longer have an unbiased media, starting decades ago but gathering steam in recent years as the full-blown Marxist globalist agenda has been aggressively pursued against the interests of sovereign nations.
This agenda is even expressed in this insistent spin that makes it a matter of Trump's ego that he's concerned about the crowd size, or whatever other personalizing spin that gets put on his positions that are really policy and nothing tp do with his personality. HE'S NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE CROWD SIZE AS SUCH, he's concerned about the LYING MEDIA who continue in every sleazy way they can to undermine everything he wants to do for this nation.
{I see this bias every day in every headline on the news sources that get coverage on the internet and other mainstream sources. The media treats Trump and his half the population like dirt. I think it's blatantly obvious that the media goes out of its way to create stories that counter Trump's views and actions to influence the public in favor of the standard liberal line. The way his ban on Muslim immigration has been covered since he issued it is a disgusting case in point, all sympathetic with the people who want to come into the country rather than with the citizens the country belongs to, as if we have no right to govern our own country. That's the globailist agenda in a nutshell, utterly against our Constitution and right to national sovereignty. As usual Americans, certainly the half of us who still maintain real American traditions, have NO place in the media's concerns, foreigners do, Muslims do, etc. They think they can sue OUR nation for OUR policies on immigration, a position fostered by the media, who loved Obama for such anti-American policies. It's sad to think that although Trump won the election and brought some sighs of relief from those of us who are sick of the liberal leftist globalist anti-American agenda, that they aren't going to rest until they take away everything he fought for and won for us. I hope they can't but they aren't going to stop trying, and apparently that includes most here at EvC.
But I suppose that's a bit far from the topic, so consider it an illustration of the general point.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 27 of 129 (797895)
01-29-2017 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by NoNukes
01-28-2017 7:22 PM


But you aren't saying one thing about VOTER ID, you are just talking about some legislation that amounts to voter fraud if true but has NOTHING TO DO WITH VOTER ID, which as I said would be intended to keep people from voting who are not qualified to vote. If that is implemented that's what it should accomplish and all the other stuff you are talking about is NOT ABOUT VOTER ID as such.
I agree we need more than the possibility of fraud to prove fraud, bujt I'm also strongly persuaded that this idea there were only a couple of incidents of actual fraud is just the usual ridiculous biased standard liberal spin and that the people who have studied the situation and believe there was real fraud in great numbers have good reason for that view. Yes I may need to muster more evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2017 4:20 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 29 of 129 (797897)
01-29-2017 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by NoNukes
01-28-2017 8:42 PM


There really is not much evidence at all that the press is lying about this issue.
I tried to make the point in the previous post that it was Trump's take on the original presentations of the population by the MSM that they were intentionally diminishing the crowd size. So far we really haven't addressed that properly.
Trump and Steve Bannon are calling the press the "opposition party"
And I strongly agree with them as I say in the previous post.
and Kellyanne Conway has insisted that it is not the job of the press to challenge any statements coming from the administration. I find the idea that the press is just supposed to be stenographers and mouthpieces to be fairly laughable.
What a sad view of this problem. Of course "stenographers" is an example of spin in itself. The old idea of what journalism has always been supposed to be was UNBIASED WITNESSES. Not "stenographers" but alert observers and reporters of the facts, which requires skill in itself. Opinion pieces were where personal views were to be expressed.
Surely you would agree that it is a violation of any journalistic ethic you can think of to quote part of a sentence while leaving out the part that changes its meaning? This is fairly common in accounts of Trump views and events. Yes I should have some examples at hand and I don't at the moment though I've heard them discussed many times. And the same ethical principle would be violated by presenting photographs of a crowd that focus only on a small portion of it, when its size happens to have political implications? Such things amount to lying it seems to me, since the context couldn't be overlooked by the dimmest reporter.
You might be able to convince folks that Trump was not lying because he actually believed his crowds was the largest one ever. But you won't be able to convince anyone reasonable that he never stated that.
I don't desire to claim that. Only that if he said it he believed it.
Further, Trump did have an outstanding week with the presidential pen. His already convinced supporters have a lot to cheer about. However, but many of those cheers are regarding things that his non-supporters would certainly not cheer Trump, Obama, or anyone else for.
Yes we have a lot to cheer about and we are cheering. Even I am cheering despite my horror of what the Left is continuing to do to try to bring down Trump and everything I value that he also cares about. I still worry that he is going to be assassinated, but certainly that the forces of evil will continue to undermine him in any way possible (that is indeed how I see the liberal-leftist-globalist agenda, as sheer totalitarian evil). But I continue to puzzle over the views of his "non-supporters" which embrace such evil but in a way that suggests some kind of brainwashing to me, as if they would agree with me if only they really understood the situation, its true historical context, etc. etc. etc.
Why include Obama, who represents the exact opposite of what got Trump elected? (In fact some have said that Obama's real legacy IS Trump, since it was his policies that turned so many of us to Trump.)
Then this other unseemly crap gets piled on top of that.
Piled on by the media spin on it, not by Trump. You call it ego, I do not. I see Trump as caring about truth and about the true America of WE THE PEOPLE, which he sincerely wants to represent, not his own ego, but the ego angle is preferred by the liberals, including you.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 129 (797898)
01-29-2017 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by PaulK
01-29-2017 6:06 AM


Re: Freedom of the press under threat
Being literally American by citizenship unfortunately does not confer an American worldview after decades of Marxist globalist propaganda through the media and the universities.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 129 (797900)
01-29-2017 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:21 PM


Re: Inaugeration Crowd -- Ego or War on Media Lies?
But what would help put things in perspective is to see the original pictures Trump was objecting to as showing the crowd from some perspective that in his judgment minimized the actual numbers, based on his view from his position up front. I don't see anything in these photos that makes that comparison.
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country.
The worries about the country that come from the left seem to me to be the product of feverish bias unrelated to the realities of Trump's personality and policies. It takes a negatively prejudiced posture even to see things the way you all do.
You see obsessive ego where I see Trump's honest desire to fulfill his campaign promises and do right by his supporters. His record of orders given just this past week demonstrates to me his determination to fulfill his obligation to us and our vision of America. I don't see personal ego in any of these things, and not in his concern about the crowd size either, which to my mind reflects the same desire to see the values he represented on behalf of his supporters treated with respect, and the size of the crowd represents the degree of support he had for those values, which he doesn't want to see diminished.
In other words, to his mind it's the media diminishing US, the PEOPLE and the American vision we share, NOT HIS OWN EGO.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 33 of 129 (797901)
01-29-2017 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:12 PM


Re: crowd size vs Smackdown WWE
RAZD, the two pictures you are comparing in this post are not the same as those in Message 8 that I was having trouble comparing. The one on the right in this post has a big gap in the crowd, right in front of the first body of water, that doesn't exist in the other photo. It may be the same camera and same angle and distance for the two you are comparing, but the time between the one in Message 8 and this one on the right must be different.
I think we may have done this to death anyway.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 35 of 129 (797922)
01-29-2017 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by RAZD
01-29-2017 9:38 AM


Re: The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
It's about both, Faith, it is about his self image as the only important person in the world (massive ego) and it's about his pogrom on the media, continually shading them and accusing them of lies even when the facts are in your face verified.
Obviously this discussion is hopeless. I see none of his actions as about personal ego but about his obligation to represent his vision of America that won him the election. And after all, right now he IS the most important person in the world, and that's a big responsibility.
Pogrom on the media? That's a laugh. Black humor unfortunately. The media are out to undermine Trump with their every word, but his corrective accurate self-defense is a "pogrom?"
Unfortunately I have reached the point where I can't process any more about the crowd numbers so please don't keep posting about it until I catch up.
I guess I missed whatever Trump said about the women's march. I'm certainly not taking your word for his attitude given your record of liberal spin on everything we've discussed so far. "Rage?" About what?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 39 of 129 (797933)
01-29-2017 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
01-29-2017 2:09 PM


Re: The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
NYT smear piece writes:
Trump Aides Keep Leaking Embarrassing Stories About How He Can’t Handle Embarrassment
The president is a 70-year-old child whose TV time must be closely monitored because any news story that upsets his ego will trigger a temper tantrum followed by irrational demands that his indulgent, overwhelmed guardians will be helpless to refuse.
Or so Donald Trump’s aides keep confiding to the nearest available reporter.
On Sunday, one of the president’s confidantes told Politico that his staffers have to control information that may infuriate him, a task made difficult by the fact that the leader of the free world gets bored and likes to watch TV.
That same day, some Trump aides provided the New York Times with a portrait of the president as a moody adolescent.
The lack of discipline troubled even senior members of Mr. Trump’s circle, the paper wrote, some of whom had urged him not to indulge his simmering resentment at what he saw as unfair news coverage.
And then, on Monday night, Trump’s staffers whispered an even more vivid account of his rough weekend to the Washington Post.
President Trump had just returned to the White House on Saturday from his final inauguration event, a tranquil interfaith prayer service, when the flashes of anger began to build.
Trump turned on the television to see a jarring juxtaposition massive demonstrations around the globe protesting his day-old presidency and footage of the sparser crowd at his inauguration, with large patches of white empty space on the Mall. As his press secretary, Sean Spicer, was still unpacking boxes in his spacious new West Wing office, Trump grew increasingly and visibly enragedOver the objections of his aides and advisers who urged him to focus on policy and the broader goals of his presidency the new president issued a decree: He wanted a fiery public response, and he wanted it to come from his press secretary.
After forcing Spicer to baldly lie to the White House press corps about the size of his inauguration crowd, the president fumed that his press secretary’s performance was not forceful enough. According to Axios, Trump was also incensed by Spicer’s poor taste in suits, and is already considering treating the former RNC staffer to his signature catchphrase.
Wow what a piece of snark masquerading as journalism. Such a report is proof of what I've been saying about the media's determination to undermine Trump in any way possible, and you swallow it whole. If he has a bad temper I could wish he didn't but "leaking" such stuff is far worse than having a bad temper, as would be pretending it was leaked but making it up out of whole cloth. You're on the wrong side of this.
Has there ever been another President who has been vilified in the press by leaks ab out his personal life purported to come from his own Aides? If this is true the lot of them should be fired, but how do I know it's even true? The Clintons had some pretty nasty personal stuff that could have been leaked but was it leaked while they were in office? Only the Monica incident was finally exposed, but that was big enough to need to be exposed. I have no doubt there's plenty that could have been leaked about Obama that wasn't, or if it was the media politely suppressed it. Kennedy's womanizing could have been leaked but it wasn't until long after his death. Etc. etc. Why do you even give credence to such sleazy reporting about Trump? Why in fact do you trust anything the NYT says or any of the other MSM?
Did you bother to notice that the whole piece is nothing but slander and subjective allegations? There isn't an objective point in any of it. And that's a separate issue from the sleazy circumstances of its supposedly having been leaked by "aides." How about you go through it and mark all the phrases that are there only for the purpose of denigrating the man? Snide comments, no facts. Have you that much integrity? You have no grounds to say "it's about both" his ego and his position when you are willing to post such tripe as if it were legitimate reporting.
As for his supposed rage against the women's march, apart from whether the rage existed, and who cares if it did? why doesn't it occur to any of you leftists that again he has to be reacting to the blatantly biased media coverage? Again that's not ego, that's his determination to call out the lying media. The media loved the women's march and hate Trump and this unjournalistic political bias comes through in everything they do. Again it has nothing to do with the numbers as such, it has to do with the media's war against Trump and all of us who support him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 40 of 129 (797934)
01-29-2017 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tangle
01-29-2017 3:02 PM


Re: The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
How nave. No it is not his words it is the spin on his words, spin being lies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 01-29-2017 3:02 PM Tangle has replied

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 Message 41 by Tangle, posted 01-29-2017 3:29 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 42 of 129 (797936)
01-29-2017 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Tangle
01-29-2017 3:29 PM


Re: The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
No I got your point and it's nave. the surrounding context will define those words, and the writer's attitude in general. Also, Trump's words are often taken out of context, his own context being truncated to promote a false understanding of what he's saying. No, the words themselves do not tell the whole story, not by a long shot.

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