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Author Topic:   Some evidence for voter fraud
xongsmith
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Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(2)
Message 16 of 129 (797882)
01-28-2017 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
01-28-2017 5:19 PM


RAZD, in part above, wrote:
I repeat that the ONLY case of voter fraud in the last election was a woman that tried to vote twice for Trump. She said it was because of all the talk about voter fraud, so she wanted to counterbalance it.
Yes. And there was another Trump woman who voted Trump for herself and then also Trump for her dead husband, certain he would have voted that way.
I heard there were only 4 cases nation-wide of voter fraud. The missing two cases here need to be researched better than I have time for.
What I truly fear is that, as soon as by 2018, only Trump-approved IDs will be allowed nation-wide. Not only will you have to produce Documentation that you are a Registered Member of the Republican Party, but evidence that you are also a big donor. The gerrymandering problem goes the way of The Final Solution with this.
We have gone way past the down-on-our-knees-pretty-please-with-a-cherry on top approach of the gutless Establishment Democrats. Bothersome political opponents will be gunned down soon. Muslim families will be trampled to death by elephants at halftimes of all pro-football games.
We have to step up our game. We have to think 5 or 6 moves ahead. This is VERY SERIOUS.
Darkness at the break of noon, January 20th, 2017 indeed.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 5:19 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 17 of 129 (797883)
01-28-2017 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
01-28-2017 5:35 PM


crowd size vs Smackdown WWE
Something I left out of my previous post: The two pictures you said to identify by the presence of the monument are not so easy to judge because the distances are different.
Look at this then
If you go to the link here and page down to the text "Now we move a little closer." (you can also do find "Now we move a little closer" to go there) these two pictures are arranged so that you can move the center bar right and left to compare the crowds. They are from the same camera location, picture angle and viewing distance. I made a quick video of this with my phone:
Sorry the clarity is so poor (you will likely need to view it full screen) but it gives you an idea of how the sliding bar on the website works.
Then go down to the next detail shot
This also is set up so that you can slide the center bar back and forth to see the differences in the crowds on the webpage.
There really is no comparison of the crowd sizes that does not show the Obama 2009 inauguration significantly larger than Trumps: you will not find any photos of the Trump inauguration that does not show the white ground in the areas shown by those last photos.
Accept it, because the only person it is important to is TrumpleThinSkin and his overbearing ego. He won the election, the crowd size does not matter. Let it go and breath.
The general population is likely more concerned with the next showing of "Smackdown" (WWE) than this.
Enjoy
Edited by Admin, : Narrow image default width slightly.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 01-28-2017 5:35 PM Faith has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 129 (797884)
01-28-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
01-28-2017 5:16 PM


Re: Inaugeration Crowd
I keep trying to compare the pictures with each other and am finding it hard to find clear points of reference, making it very hard to judge the soze pf the crpwds.
I still don't really know what degree of authenticity to assign to the long shots, or what numbers are represented by them.
See Message 17 for some additional photo information
But I don't need Trump's crowd to be as large as Obama's, I've said I don't think it was, though Trump may have thought it was; and that looks like a pretty huge crowd to me in any case.
Thanks for your honesty here. Indeed I agree, the crowd is large enough for any president to feel welcome, especially with the viewing location he had.
But what would help put things in perspective is to see the original pictures Trump was objecting to as showing the crowd from some perspective that in his judgment minimized the actual numbers, based on his view from his position up front. I don't see anything in these photos that makes that comparison.
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 01-28-2017 5:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 01-28-2017 9:24 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 01-29-2017 7:26 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 19 of 129 (797885)
01-28-2017 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:21 PM


Re: Inaugeration Crowd
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country.
He's trolling the media!
He's got them so wound up over so many issues that they're losing it completely and biting their own tails! And I believe he's doing it both deliberately and with a lot of prior thought.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 9:21 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 9:51 PM Coyote has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 20 of 129 (797886)
01-28-2017 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by xongsmith
01-28-2017 9:01 PM


RAZD, in part above, wrote:
I repeat that the ONLY case of voter fraud in the last election was a woman that tried to vote twice for Trump. She said it was because of all the talk about voter fraud, so she wanted to counterbalance it.
Yes. And there was another Trump woman who voted Trump for herself and then also Trump for her dead husband, certain he would have voted that way.
Thanks for the correction.
This is one of the things that worries me, the GOP echo machine makes such a fuss of voter fraud that their audience feels (a) it is easy to do and (b) this enables them to do it because the "other side" is doing it.
We really do need a national overhaul of voting from registration regulations to machines to how we vote (paper ballots, mail ins, etc)
And I'll challenge anyone to review this and argue that 51 million eligible voters not being registered is as big or bigger of a problem the the possibility of individuals voting more than once, assuming ALL others make illegal votes ...
  • +51 people not able to vote (not registered)
  • -1.8 million deceased individuals are listed as active voters.
  • -2.75 million people have active registrations in more than one state.
  • -12 million records with incorrect addresses
... still leaves 34.45 people not able to vote (not registered): what is the greater problem.
It is rather disturbing that republicans look at the PEW summary and not see the first group as a problem.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by xongsmith, posted 01-28-2017 9:01 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 21 of 129 (797887)
01-28-2017 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Coyote
01-28-2017 9:24 PM


Big Orange Troll
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country.
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country.
He's trolling the media!
He's got them so wound up over so many issues that they're losing it completely and biting their own tails! And I believe he's doing it both deliberately and with a lot of prior thought.
He's got them so wound up over so many issues that they're losing it completely and biting their own tails! And I believe he's doing it both deliberately and with a lot of prior thought.
Just as he trolled republicans during the primaries and the election campaign. The voters bought it.
Be careful what you wish for.
Personally I am somewhat not upset that the DNC got their asses handed to them across the nation: they need to wake up and return to being the party of the working people or the working people will find a new party -- they don't want cocktail party corporation sucking republican light DINOs.
He's trolling the media!
Is he? What I find disturbing is the leaked reports from his staff at his rage about the inauguration size coverage on TV and especially the comparison the next day to the massive crowds for the women's march, the biggest crowd in US history.
Why does he care that much?
The stockmarket breaks a new record, what does he do? Complains to the CIA people about his crowd size and the news is about Trump not the stock market, and not him taking credit for it shooting up after his election the way another politician would.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 01-28-2017 9:24 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Coyote, posted 01-28-2017 10:00 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 01-29-2017 5:22 AM RAZD has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 22 of 129 (797888)
01-28-2017 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:51 PM


Re: Big Orange Troll
Personally I am somewhat not upset that the DNC got their asses handed to them across the nation: they need to wake up and return to being the party of the working people or the working people will find a new party -- they don't want cocktail party corporation sucking republican light DINOs.
I think a lot of votes were lost to democrats and Clinton because of identity politics.
When the main emphasis is on what bathroom someone uses and which of 97 different genders they are, while fundamental issues such as jobs and economics are given little attention, a lot of working people will look for better alternatives.
The east/west coast vs. heartland divide seems to reflect this pretty clearly.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 9:51 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 10:04 PM Coyote has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 23 of 129 (797889)
01-28-2017 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Coyote
01-28-2017 10:00 PM


Re: Big Orange Troll
moved to The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.
Edited by RAZD, : .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Coyote, posted 01-28-2017 10:00 PM Coyote has replied

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 24 of 129 (797890)
01-28-2017 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by RAZD
01-28-2017 10:04 PM


Re: Big Orange Troll
The Clinton campaign was "Vote for me or you will get Trump" and the working people looked at Clinton and said "nothing for me there, might as well be Trump" ... Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania.
Correct. It was vote for a known quantity vs. hope and change! lol
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 10:04 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


(1)
Message 25 of 129 (797892)
01-29-2017 1:08 AM


Off-topic happening
Things about the election itself belong in the The 2016 United States Presidential Election topic.
This topic is about voter fraud (and the directly related), with an apparent side topic about the Trump crowd size issue.
Adminnemooseus

Or something like that.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 129 (797894)
01-29-2017 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
01-28-2017 9:51 PM


The Trolls are the "mainstream" media
Why does he care that much? [about the crowd size]
I keep trying to tell you it is not about the crowd size per se, it's about his perception that the media lied about it in its original reports. And this original motivation of his has still not been addressed here as far as I know -- we'd need to see the original pictures he saw and I don't know if that's in any of the ones shown here. All these pictures MAY go some distance to demonstrate what the crowd size actually was (or maybe not very far really), but that misses the point that Trump's concern is the lying media, and that the original impression of the crowd they gave was far far short of the actuality as seen from Trump's location at the front of the crowd. The actual numbers may or may not have much to do with this.
Trump and his supporters consider the media to be his real political opponent, and ours -- we no longer have an unbiased media, starting decades ago but gathering steam in recent years as the full-blown Marxist globalist agenda has been aggressively pursued against the interests of sovereign nations.
This agenda is even expressed in this insistent spin that makes it a matter of Trump's ego that he's concerned about the crowd size, or whatever other personalizing spin that gets put on his positions that are really policy and nothing tp do with his personality. HE'S NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE CROWD SIZE AS SUCH, he's concerned about the LYING MEDIA who continue in every sleazy way they can to undermine everything he wants to do for this nation.
{I see this bias every day in every headline on the news sources that get coverage on the internet and other mainstream sources. The media treats Trump and his half the population like dirt. I think it's blatantly obvious that the media goes out of its way to create stories that counter Trump's views and actions to influence the public in favor of the standard liberal line. The way his ban on Muslim immigration has been covered since he issued it is a disgusting case in point, all sympathetic with the people who want to come into the country rather than with the citizens the country belongs to, as if we have no right to govern our own country. That's the globailist agenda in a nutshell, utterly against our Constitution and right to national sovereignty. As usual Americans, certainly the half of us who still maintain real American traditions, have NO place in the media's concerns, foreigners do, Muslims do, etc. They think they can sue OUR nation for OUR policies on immigration, a position fostered by the media, who loved Obama for such anti-American policies. It's sad to think that although Trump won the election and brought some sighs of relief from those of us who are sick of the liberal leftist globalist anti-American agenda, that they aren't going to rest until they take away everything he fought for and won for us. I hope they can't but they aren't going to stop trying, and apparently that includes most here at EvC.
But I suppose that's a bit far from the topic, so consider it an illustration of the general point.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2017 9:51 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by PaulK, posted 01-29-2017 6:06 AM Faith has replied
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2017 9:38 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 27 of 129 (797895)
01-29-2017 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by NoNukes
01-28-2017 7:22 PM


But you aren't saying one thing about VOTER ID, you are just talking about some legislation that amounts to voter fraud if true but has NOTHING TO DO WITH VOTER ID, which as I said would be intended to keep people from voting who are not qualified to vote. If that is implemented that's what it should accomplish and all the other stuff you are talking about is NOT ABOUT VOTER ID as such.
I agree we need more than the possibility of fraud to prove fraud, bujt I'm also strongly persuaded that this idea there were only a couple of incidents of actual fraud is just the usual ridiculous biased standard liberal spin and that the people who have studied the situation and believe there was real fraud in great numbers have good reason for that view. Yes I may need to muster more evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by NoNukes, posted 01-28-2017 7:22 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2017 4:20 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 28 of 129 (797896)
01-29-2017 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
01-29-2017 5:22 AM


Freedom of the press under threat
Firstly it is obvious that the numbers ARE important to the Trump administration. That is why they lied in the first place.
However it is also quite clear that the administration is displeased that the mainstream press dare to challenge their lies. And are at least considering acting on that displeasure.
And - as illustrated here - it is hardly necessary to invent stories that show Trump or his supporters in a bad light
quote:
The way his ban on Muslim immigration has been covered since he issued it is a disgusting case in point, all sympathetic with the people who want to come into the country rather than with the citizens the country belongs to, as if we have no right to govern our own count
And why should people not be sympathetic to those who who will suffer as a result of this dubious policy ? Especially given the rather selective choice of countries to be affected.
And what makes Trump's supporters the sole voice of the American people ?
quote:
That's the globailist agenda in a nutshell, utterly against our Constitution and right to national sovereignty.
Of course it is neither. The press you are talking about are largely American. To assert that they have no say - that it is wrong for them to even speak against Trump is clearly a threat to the Constitution.
The media don't have to make things up when you are openly condemning yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 01-29-2017 5:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 01-29-2017 6:19 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 29 of 129 (797897)
01-29-2017 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by NoNukes
01-28-2017 8:42 PM


There really is not much evidence at all that the press is lying about this issue.
I tried to make the point in the previous post that it was Trump's take on the original presentations of the population by the MSM that they were intentionally diminishing the crowd size. So far we really haven't addressed that properly.
Trump and Steve Bannon are calling the press the "opposition party"
And I strongly agree with them as I say in the previous post.
and Kellyanne Conway has insisted that it is not the job of the press to challenge any statements coming from the administration. I find the idea that the press is just supposed to be stenographers and mouthpieces to be fairly laughable.
What a sad view of this problem. Of course "stenographers" is an example of spin in itself. The old idea of what journalism has always been supposed to be was UNBIASED WITNESSES. Not "stenographers" but alert observers and reporters of the facts, which requires skill in itself. Opinion pieces were where personal views were to be expressed.
Surely you would agree that it is a violation of any journalistic ethic you can think of to quote part of a sentence while leaving out the part that changes its meaning? This is fairly common in accounts of Trump views and events. Yes I should have some examples at hand and I don't at the moment though I've heard them discussed many times. And the same ethical principle would be violated by presenting photographs of a crowd that focus only on a small portion of it, when its size happens to have political implications? Such things amount to lying it seems to me, since the context couldn't be overlooked by the dimmest reporter.
You might be able to convince folks that Trump was not lying because he actually believed his crowds was the largest one ever. But you won't be able to convince anyone reasonable that he never stated that.
I don't desire to claim that. Only that if he said it he believed it.
Further, Trump did have an outstanding week with the presidential pen. His already convinced supporters have a lot to cheer about. However, but many of those cheers are regarding things that his non-supporters would certainly not cheer Trump, Obama, or anyone else for.
Yes we have a lot to cheer about and we are cheering. Even I am cheering despite my horror of what the Left is continuing to do to try to bring down Trump and everything I value that he also cares about. I still worry that he is going to be assassinated, but certainly that the forces of evil will continue to undermine him in any way possible (that is indeed how I see the liberal-leftist-globalist agenda, as sheer totalitarian evil). But I continue to puzzle over the views of his "non-supporters" which embrace such evil but in a way that suggests some kind of brainwashing to me, as if they would agree with me if only they really understood the situation, its true historical context, etc. etc. etc.
Why include Obama, who represents the exact opposite of what got Trump elected? (In fact some have said that Obama's real legacy IS Trump, since it was his policies that turned so many of us to Trump.)
Then this other unseemly crap gets piled on top of that.
Piled on by the media spin on it, not by Trump. You call it ego, I do not. I see Trump as caring about truth and about the true America of WE THE PEOPLE, which he sincerely wants to represent, not his own ego, but the ego angle is preferred by the liberals, including you.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 129 (797898)
01-29-2017 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by PaulK
01-29-2017 6:06 AM


Re: Freedom of the press under threat
Being literally American by citizenship unfortunately does not confer an American worldview after decades of Marxist globalist propaganda through the media and the universities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by PaulK, posted 01-29-2017 6:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by PaulK, posted 01-29-2017 6:37 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 46 by nwr, posted 01-29-2017 6:47 PM Faith has replied

  
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