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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1 of 993 (797990)
01-30-2017 7:57 AM


Here's a discussion from Townhall of the legality of Trump's executive order banning entrance into the country to members of some nations: Yes, the Trump Executive Order on Immigration is Legal:
Even more ridiculous and blinkered is the suggestion that there may be something unconstitutional about refusing entry to refugees or discriminating among them on religious or other bases (a reaction that was shared at first by some Republicans, including Mike Pence, when Trump’s plan was announced in December 2015). There are plenty of moral and political arguments on these points, but foreigners have no right under our Constitution to demand entry to the United States or to challenge any reason we might have to refuse them entry, even blatant religious discrimination. Under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress’s powers in this area are plenary, and the president’s powers are as broad as the Congress chooses to give him. If liberals are baffled as to why even the invocation of the historically problematic America First slogan by Trump is popular with almost two-thirds of the American public, they should look no further than people arguing that foreigners should be treated by the law as if they were American citizens with all the rights and protections we give Americans.
Liberals are likewise on both unwise and unpopular ground in sneering at the idea that there might be an increased risk of radical Islamist terrorism resulting from large numbers of Muslims entering the country as refugees or asylees. There have been many such cases in Europe, ranging from terrorists (as in the Brussels attack) posing as refugees to the infiltration of radicals and the radicalization of new entrants. The 9/11 plotters, several of whom overstayed their visas in the U.S. after immigrating from the Middle East to Germany, are part of that picture as well. Here in the U.S., we have had a number of terror attacks carried out by foreign-born Muslims or their children. The Tsarnaev brothers who carried out the Boston Marathon bombing were children of asylees; the Times Square bomber was a Pakistani immigrant; the underwear bomber was from Nigeria; the San Bernardino shooter was the son of Pakistani immigrants; the Chattanooga shooter was from Kuwait; the Fort Hood shooter was the son of Palestinian immigrants. All of this takes place against the backdrop of a global movement of radical Islamist terrorism that kills tens of thousands of people a year in terrorist attacks and injures or kidnaps tens of thousands more.
There are plenty of reasons not to indict the entire innocent Muslim population, including those who come as refugees or asylees seeking to escape tyranny and radicalism, for the actions of a comparatively small percentage of radicals. But efforts to salami-slice the problem into something that looks like a minor or improbable outlier, or to compare this to past waves of immigrants, are an insult to the intelligence of the public.
...Also, the list of nations in the order was selected from the Obama White House. Theylaid down the groundwork.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 8:30 AM Faith has replied
 Message 19 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-30-2017 11:53 AM Faith has replied
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 01-30-2017 11:57 AM Faith has replied
 Message 66 by Modulous, posted 01-30-2017 7:54 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3 of 993 (797997)
01-30-2017 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by PaulK
01-30-2017 8:30 AM


It is no shame on any nation to protect its citizens from any possible threat whatever according to the judgment of its leadership; rather it is its righteous duty. In fact I find the 1965 law also discussed in the article to be a problem because it disallows discrimination on the basis of nationality. In my opinion any nation should be allowed to discriminate against the entry of members of any other nation for any reason whatever. That's a sovereign right that liberal "snowflakes" melt into silly tears over, having no appreciation whatever of actual risk and threat in this fallen world where there even exists a religion like Islam that commands its followers to commit murder in the name of their god, and whose members have no intention of assimilating to the culture they are entering.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 8:58 AM Faith has replied
 Message 5 by JonF, posted 01-30-2017 9:02 AM Faith has replied
 Message 60 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2017 5:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 6 of 993 (798003)
01-30-2017 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by JonF
01-30-2017 9:02 AM


My objection to this law doesn't affect Trump's order anyway, as Townhall points out. I'm simply giving my opinion that a nation should be able to ban anybody they like for any reason whatever.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 7 of 993 (798004)
01-30-2017 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
01-30-2017 8:58 AM


What a snowflaky opinion, that grievances might radicalize some Muslims. Oo oo oo let's all cower before the murdering ideology cuz they might get all mad and hurt us. Cowardice is not the way to deal with bullies. No, the historical fact is that a show of power has the opposite effect with Islamists, leading them to lie low until power accumulates on their side.
It is because the west has given into them that they have become the danger they have become over the last couple of decades both here and in Europe, not to mention all the nations they have been terrorizing for years.
And get a clue: none of their murdering rampages have anything to do with "grievances" -- except of course the grievance that we aren't Muslims. It is all about the ideology of Islam that rewards them for killing "infidels." This ridiculously nave culturebound idea about "grievances" is in fact one of the biggest reasons they have become the threat they have become.
I have no worries about being in the wrong about these things. It is a righteous act to prevent harm to my neighbor as I see a risk of that. Whether you see it or not has no effect on MY view of it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 8:58 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 9:28 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 9 of 993 (798007)
01-30-2017 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by PaulK
01-30-2017 9:28 AM


THEY ARE ALREADY ENEMIES by their ideology. You are taking the cowardly position.
By the way we've admitted many refugees as "children" who are in their twenties and as old as thirty. Get a clue.

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 Message 8 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 9:28 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 9:57 AM Faith has replied
 Message 242 by Taq, posted 02-02-2017 4:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 993 (798008)
01-30-2017 9:36 AM


The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
By the way is anybody noticing the media reports on the protests against Trump's order? All in favor of the protests, which are whipped up by anti-Americans and wacko liberals, protesting OUR laws which they have no right to do. It's all Trump's fault according to them. Latest Yahoo headline: "How Trump's Rushed Move Ignited Chaos Around the Globe." No, the chaos has been ignited by enemies of America working feverishly to destroy us, probably as usual financed by George Soros, infiltrated by mercenaries bought by him, and inflamed by the sort of cowardice PaulK is recommending. Media bias against America is running all these things and liberals are all in favor of it.
I hope Trump can hold out against this neverending attempt to destroy the best nation that ever existed on earth but it may be that the evil powers will succeed. Come soon Lord Jesus.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by vimesey, posted 01-30-2017 9:59 AM Faith has replied
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2017 11:04 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 13 of 993 (798011)
01-30-2017 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
01-30-2017 9:57 AM


I could not care less if some of the order needs to be modified or is legal just as it is, but as a whole it is perfectly legal and should be enforced. The ones with the paperwork need to be vetted by the government too.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 14 of 993 (798012)
01-30-2017 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by vimesey
01-30-2017 9:59 AM


Re: The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
There is a liberal false Jesus that is popular these days. Probably the one you've heard about. The true Jesus is not in favor of putting the citizens of a nation under threat by foreigners.
....EXCEPT of course if we are under God's judgment, because that sort of foreign threat is one of the punishments decreed -- check out Deuteronomy 10 (I think) and Leviticus 26.
And despite what seems to be God's blessing us by sending us the sane policies of Trump, it may well be that we are so far under His judgment already that without a more drastic change than even Trump promises we can't escape destruction. And if we can't certainly Europe can't. Hello Sharia Law. Enjoy.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by vimesey, posted 01-30-2017 10:35 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 18 of 993 (798018)
01-30-2017 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by vimesey
01-30-2017 10:35 AM


Re: The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
TYpical liberal confusion. JESUS WAS NOT TALKING TO NATIONS. He was talking to individual believers. YOU personaly are commanded to treat all as you treat your family. So do so. The government is not what Jesus was addressing. What utter nonsense. Never in the history of Christianity has such absolute wackiness been attributed to Jesus, great theologians over two thousand years, certainly better informed of Jesus' teachings than you. Only now under the influence of Leftist revisionism are we subjected to such wackiness. Oh God help us.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by vimesey, posted 01-30-2017 11:55 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 22 of 993 (798026)
01-30-2017 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
01-30-2017 11:57 AM


Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
How silly. Jihadists aren't going to attack in great numbers until they've built up a sufficient population to take over a nation. They've even succeeded in taking over whole countries in Asia and killing huge numbers in Africa. They are attacking more in Europe than in America because there are more of them, but still not enough to make Europe part of the ultimate caliphate. Still they are raping and committing violence at a rate that most of you have no idea of because you like your comfy lies. Give them time to bring in a few million more refugees. We've had just a few incidents in America so far showing that Islam isn't strong enough for more yet. Why don't you guys read something that explains what their plans are for taking over the world, instead of all the liberal excuses that make you feel so righteous about your false belief that there is no danger in bringing them into America?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 24 of 993 (798028)
01-30-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by vimesey
01-30-2017 11:55 AM


Re: The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
The correct understanding of that command is to make disciples from among all nations. Sometimes we get a whole nation committed to Christ governmentally, such as America used to be, and even England and other European nations, but that's through the work of the individuals who were converted, in some cases kings, and we know that not all in any nation become true Christians even so.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 25 of 993 (798029)
01-30-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by PaulK
01-30-2017 12:17 PM


Re: So, anyone feel like defending this ?
Oh WHAT a travesty, that one person was wrongly detained through a general law. Awful terrible injustice. I think I'll swoon.
There have been very few such situations considering the scope of the law, and why not assume they'll be corrected in their time? Oh I know why: because you want to vilify Trump. Silly me.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 28 of 993 (798033)
01-30-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Dr Adequate
01-30-2017 11:53 AM


Golly Gosh, defying a Presidential order is probably even more illegal. and in this case certainly is illegal because Trump's order has so much legal weight behind it. That court is wrong and should be impeached.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-30-2017 11:53 AM Dr Adequate has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 31 of 993 (798036)
01-30-2017 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by nwr
01-30-2017 12:25 PM


Re: The Propaganda Blitz Against Righeousness
You are obviously abysmally ignorant of American history. All the original colonies but one were founded by PROTESTANT CHRISTIANS and strongly Protestant even as the Constitution was being written. Some did complain that they were betrayed by the Constitution that left out the felt allegiance to God by the VAST majority of the population. Just another little coup against the truth brought about by the Evil One. But even so the Christian character of the nation continued another century and a half or so, reflected in the government in many ways besides the population, in the prayers that open Congress for instance, in various court decisions and so on. But again the Evil One triumphed, turned our own Constitution against its fundamentally Christian inspiration, yes even through the Deists who were soaked in the Bible and made use of its teachings in the formation of the government. Oh there are lots of ways this nation started out and remained Christian for most of its existence.
There is a famous quote wrongly attributed to Toqueville about America being great because America is good, but it's a good concept and I think it's true no matter who said it. We've lost our goodness over the last half century or so. Despite Trump's heroic efforts to restore our greatness I have my doubts that he'll succeed because he isn't going to turn back the badness. Abortion in the millions per year for instance. but there's a long list beyond that.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 33 of 993 (798039)
01-30-2017 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dr Adequate
01-30-2017 12:39 PM


The executive order is legal through many offices and documents of the government., as the Townhall article says. Defying that order is what is illegal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-30-2017 12:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 41 by Diomedes, posted 01-30-2017 2:50 PM Faith has replied

  
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