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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 76 of 993 (798112)
01-31-2017 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by vimesey
01-31-2017 4:44 AM


Re: One Of The Devils Best Tricks
Vimesey, I agree. That Holocaust Memorial is one of the most "profoundly moving experiences" I' ve ever had. Also, it's situated on a piece of land where anyone entering it without permission could legally be shot dead until relatively recently (end of 1989). No questions allowed.
To get back on the subject, I wonder whether Hair Furor has ever visited that memorial.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by vimesey, posted 01-31-2017 4:44 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by vimesey, posted 01-31-2017 6:36 AM Pressie has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 77 of 993 (798113)
01-31-2017 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Pressie
01-31-2017 5:55 AM


Re: One Of The Devils Best Tricks
I suspect he isn't aware of it - and possibly not of the true extent and nature of the Holocaust itself - but who knows.
And yes, the Germans were (and are) pretty concerned about Neo Nazis defacing the memorial - I would need to check the shooting dead business though.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Pressie, posted 01-31-2017 5:55 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Pressie, posted 01-31-2017 6:54 AM vimesey has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 78 of 993 (798114)
01-31-2017 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by vimesey
01-31-2017 6:36 AM


Re: One Of The Devils Best Tricks
That memorial is situated between what used to be in an area between East and West Berlin. Surrounded by walls.
The walls were in East Berlin.
The Big Wall right next to Western border (built by East Germany) was seperated from the Small Wall (also built by East Germany) by a few hundred metres, depending on the area.
In that area where the Holocaust Memorial is now, that area was around 500m in width. Nobody was allowed to be in that area without permission. They got shot by East German Border Guards for trying to cross the border. No questions asked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by vimesey, posted 01-31-2017 6:36 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 79 of 993 (798117)
01-31-2017 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
01-30-2017 1:35 PM


Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
If you want to know, which I suspect you don't, because you like the delusion that Islam is just a benign peaceful religion, which already takes an amazing level of delusion considering the information that is readily available all over the internet, including of course their occasional indulgence in murder in honor of Allah.
Actually I distinguish between terrorists, fundamentalists and moderates, just as we have here with Christians: terrorists that bomb clinics and assassinate doctors, fundamentalists that say their opinion is better than others, and moderates that accept other people can have different views and still be moral law abiding citizens.
You paint ALL Muslims with a broad brush covered in tar as members of ISIS ... which curiously kills more Muslims than Christians ... because that is what terrorists do ...
The delusion is yours. I read this a year before 9/11 in the book "Philistine" by Ramon Bennett, which QUOTES many Muslim leaders in the Arab world saying quite clearly that their strategy is to populate other countries to the point that they have enough population to take the country for Allah. But of course you like most people here don't want to know the truth. Since that book was written there has been a steady movement in that very direction. I've mentioned this book before. I'm sure it's not the only source of this information. Probably Jihad Watch is one good internet source.
A book. Really.
Rather than blaming a whole religion and culture you should be looking at people who are radicalized.
quote:
Loner student 'who liked Trump, Le Pen and mocked Syrian refugees online' is charged with six counts of murder for gunning down Muslim men as they prayed in a Quebec City mosque
  • Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said there was 'no mistake' it was a terrorist attack against Muslims
  • He held a minute's silence in the House of Commons on Monday and told Canadian Muslims: 'We will love you'
The 27-year-old student was described by classmates as a pro-Trump loner who did not fit in well at Laval University where is studying anthropology and political sciences. But neighbors of the family home in the affluent Quebec suburb of Cap Rouge were stunned to learn Bissonnette, described as a 'typical boy-next-door', was being accused of the shooting.
Students described him to DailyMail.com as a pro-Trump loner but a timid man who didn't seem capable of committing an act of terror.
'Based on the conversations that I had with him during the American presidential campaign, it's true he is pro-Trump,' the student, who asked to remain anonymous, said.
This white christian terrorist action occurred just after Trump issued his Muslim ban. Did Trump's views radicalize him, promote him to become a terrorist?
We also have
Are these people being radicalized into acts of terror by Trump? If you think not then what is your explanation for this increase in home grown (mostly white christian) terrorist activity?
Do you support these radicalized homegrown terrorist actions?
quote:
KKK, other racist groups disavow the white supremacist label
In today's racially charged environment, there's a label that even the KKK disavows: white supremacy.
Standing on a muddy dirt road in the dead of night near the North Carolina-Virginia border, masked Ku Klux Klan members claimed Donald Trump's election as president proves whites are taking back America from blacks, immigrants, Jews and other groups they describe as criminals and freeloaders. America was founded by and for whites, they say, and only whites can run a peaceful, productive society.
So I guess all that lynching and burning and bombing and killing wasn't terrorism to drive non-white non-Christian people away or to suppress their activity. Right.
Do you support the KKK or their actions?
If you are truly worried about being killed by a terrorist, the likelihood is higher that it will be a white christian homegrown terrorist than an immigrant Muslim.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 1:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 8:46 AM RAZD has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 80 of 993 (798118)
01-31-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Pressie
01-31-2017 6:54 AM


Re: One Of The Devils Best Tricks
You're right - apologies - I'm half asleep :-)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Pressie, posted 01-31-2017 6:54 AM Pressie has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 993 (798119)
01-31-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by NoNukes
01-30-2017 5:59 PM


CS writes:
Does the Green Card actually give full Constitutional protection of due process to aliens?
I find this question a bit strange. Do you believe that only citizens of the United States have real Constitutional rights?
I find THIS strange, VERY strange. I don't know what legal protections apply to Green Card holders -- certainly they must have some legal protection under US law, and of course under international law at least. But "real Constitutional rights" belong ONLY to the citizens of the United States. What a bizarre idea that they are to be extended to foreigners. This kind of thinking is promoted by globalists and is designed to destroy national sovereignty, and threatens the well being of the legitimate citizens of a nation..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2017 5:59 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 82 of 993 (798120)
01-31-2017 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Dr Adequate
01-30-2017 3:09 PM


Trump fires Acting Attorney General
"Whatever is right in response to the stay" is to obey it, not to behave like the tinpot dictator of a banana republic.
quote:
Trump Fires Acting Attorney General Who Defied Him
President Trump fired his acting attorney general on Monday night, removing her as the nation’s top law enforcement officer after she defiantly refused to defend his executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees and people from predominantly Muslim countries.
In an escalating crisis for his 10-day-old administration, the president declared in a statement that Sally Q. Yates, who had served as deputy attorney general under President Barack Obama, had betrayed the administration by announcing that Justice Department lawyers would not defend Mr. Trump’s order against legal challenges.
Monday’s events have transformed the confirmation of Mr. Sessions into a referendum on Mr. Trump’s immigration order. Action in the Senate could come as early as Tuesday.
Ms. Yates’s order was a remarkable rebuke by a government official to a sitting president, and it recalled the so-called Saturday Night Massacre in 1973, when President Richard M. Nixon fired his attorney general and deputy attorney general for refusing to dismiss the special prosecutor in the Watergate case.
So 10 days in, and he's acting like "tricky dicky" Nixon in his efforts to avoid impeachment.
"tinpot dictator" indeed

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-30-2017 3:09 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by herebedragons, posted 01-31-2017 8:37 AM RAZD has replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 83 of 993 (798121)
01-31-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
01-31-2017 7:48 AM


That is an odd point of view. If the Constitution says that the government can't do something should we always read "except to non-citizens" into it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 7:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 84 of 993 (798122)
01-31-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
01-31-2017 7:48 AM


But "real Constitutional rights" belong ONLY to the citizens of the United States.
14th Ammendment:
quote:
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Source: Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights
Unless you want to try and argue that non-citizens (illegal or legal) are not actually 'persons', then the Constitution is pretty clear that even illegal aliens have the Constitutional right to due process and equal protection under the laws of the United States.
quote:
"Aliens," legal and illegal, have the full panoply of constitutional protections American citizens have with three exceptions: voting, some government jobs and gun ownership
quote:
The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage."
The problem as I see it with Trump's order (other than it being vague and misplaced) is that it has the potential of depriving those who have been granted legal access into the country of their due process. So there are those who are showing up at the airport, on US soil, with legal documentation and are being detained and removed or potentially removed without their due process rights being respected. That, in my opinion, is what is illegal about the order and what the former acting Attorney General objected to.
ABE: What I think would have been more appropriate is to order that new visa applications be halted for a period of time (which is actually what Obama did in his action that is being compared to this action). It may be an appropriate and necessary step to ensure that our process for determining who comes into our country is sound and provides us the best possible protection. However, targeting Muslim countries that have no record of killing US citizens in the country doesn't seem like the best approach. It is simply fear and prejudice driven. /ABE
HBD
Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 7:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 85 of 993 (798124)
01-31-2017 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by RAZD
01-31-2017 8:10 AM


Re: Trump fires Acting Attorney General
"tinpot dictator" indeed
It seems to me that Trump thinks he should be able to run the country like he runs his business - like he owns them and that his word and will are paramount. He is used to having his way in his companies and expects the country to work like that as well. Unfortunately, it will probably be that those who oppose him will be Democrats and "liberals" and so opposition will appear to be strictly partisan. However, I sure hope that Republicans will recognize his recklessness and bullying and oppose him as well. But it appears he is loading his administration up with 'Yes' men who think like he does.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 8:10 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 9:11 AM herebedragons has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 86 of 993 (798125)
01-31-2017 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by RAZD
01-31-2017 7:40 AM


Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
Actually I distinguish between terrorists, fundamentalists and moderates, just as we have here with Christians: terrorists that bomb clinics and assassinate doctors, fundamentalists that say their opinion is better than others, and moderates that accept other people can have different views and still be moral law abiding citizens.
You paint ALL Muslims with a broad brush covered in tar as members of ISIS ... which curiously kills more Muslims than Christians ... because that is what terrorists do ...
Yes, Muslims kill as many or more Muslims than others, but it is all from the same mental set based on the religion of Islam.
And No, I do not treat all Muslims as members of ISIS, it is ISLAM, not MUSLIMS, I'm talking about. Most Muslims don't live their religion to the point that the radicals do. But the problem is that the religion itself demands violence from them if they ever do become more devoted to it. They are human beings like all the rest of us, but the ideology they follow is dangerous. Trying to make this into a matter of individuals as it would be under most other circumstances, is in this case inherently risky. Islam doesn't acknowledge any law other than its own. It regards all the laws of other nations as enemies of Allah. Sharia Law is the only law they respect. Muslims are pawns of their own religion, and pawns of their Muslim leadership, and always subjected to threats from these sources. If they become Christians they are immediately targeted for murder. And this goes on all over the world all the time.
You are imposing a western mindset on this situation. They don't accept your western mindset. They can't, their religion calls it satanic. They will of course play along as if they agree with you but they don't; they can't. If they do become truly westernized they become targets for murder. If for only that reason they can't be truly honest. You have no way to vet such people beyond the most superficial facts because their ideology has them in mental chains, and that makes them a danger to the rest of us.
Unfortunately you share the very dangerous opinion that actually promotes Islamist violence. In reality Islam itself is not moderate. It can be shown that the Bible is violated by the very very few who commit the kinds of crimes you have in mind, but the reasons for this violence are completely different from Muslim reasons. Unfortunately the official books of Islam are fulfilled and not violated by Muslim violence. It is the religion itself that promotes their violence. THIS IS NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS, not about MUSLIMS themselves, it's about ISLAM, the RELIGION OF ISLAM. THIS IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THE JIHADIST VIOLENCE, the WRITTEN ORDERS TO KILL "INFIDELS" along with the example of Mohammed himself who spread his new religion by murdering those who refused to accept it, whole villages. "Moderates"' are simply Muslims who for whatever reason don't practice Islam at its full tilt. But because the violence and murder in the service of making the world totally obedient to Allah, are all advocated in its sacred books, ANY MUSLIM can be radicalized simply by becoming a more serious follower of his own religion. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH ANY OTHER RELIGION ON THE EARTH.
Sorry I'm repeating myself but you are seriously misled.
The delusion is yours. I read this a year before 9/11 in the book "Philistine" by Ramon Bennett, which QUOTES many Muslim leaders in the Arab world saying quite clearly that their strategy is to populate other countries to the point that they have enough population to take the country for Allah. But of course you like most people here don't want to know the truth. Since that book was written there has been a steady movement in that very direction. I've mentioned this book before. I'm sure it's not the only source of this information. Probably Jihad Watch is one good internet source.
A book. Really.
You prefer the internet I suppose? Well, as I said, Jihad Watch is pretty thorough on the subject. But this book I'm talking about was written by someone who knows the subject well and has 47 pages of bibliographical notes. I'm going through it trying to pick out the best quotes from Muslims to demonstrate what I'm saying. FROM MUSLIMS, not just the author.
Rather than blaming a whole religion and culture you should be looking at people who are radicalized.
Well, that is basically what Trump wants to do, and that will go some distance toward protecting us. But unfortunately for the reasons I give above it can never be completely trustworthy. Because the whole religion IS to be blamed. It's the religion that is the threat, and only people who believably reject either all or the violent parts of that religion could ever be completely trustworthy. Since they are very likely to dissemble in order to appear to be no threat, how are you ever going to know for sure?
As for the Mosque incident:
It is possible of course that a Trump supporter could attack a mosque, but the timing is very strange in that case, right when Trump's own policies are clearly working to protect us from Muslim violence. It is really very likely that this is a "false flag" event designed by Leftist and Muslims sources to point the finger at Trump and his supporters. This reportedly very quiet and timid student was very likely set up for this purpose. Trump supporters have no reason for such violence, but our enemies get plenty of mileage out of any excuse to blame us for such things.
  • Racist Incidents Are Up Since Donald Trump's Election ...
  • Hundreds of Hate Crimes Reported Since Election: SPLC ...
  • Tracking Hate since Trump's election - thinkprogress.org
  • Update: Incidents of Hateful Harassment Since Election Day ...
  • Post-Election Hate Crimes Roughly Seven Times Higher than ...
My guess is that this whole list is a pack of lies designed to imply that if such incidents occurred at all they were by Trump supporters, WHEN IN FACT ALL THE KNOWN DOCUMENTED INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN BY ANTI-TRUMP SUPPORTERS AGAINST TRUMP SUPPORTERS. The latest was an attack on a Trump supporter in Portland. It's on video. Since right after the election there have been incidents of Trump supporters being attacked, beaten up, verbally abused. The first one I recall seeing, right after the election, was by four or five black guys who dragged a white guy out of his car and beat him, thinking he was a Trump supporter, which as I recall it turned out he wasn't. But they thought he was, though his being white was probably enough anyway. Even Ivanka Trump was subjected to verbal abuse on an airplane, and a woman was recently escorted off a plane for verbally assaulting the man next to her after finding out he had been at the inauguration to celebrate Trump, whereas she had been there for the women's march. And I almost forgot that incident a couple weeks ago of the four blacks who tied up the mentally handicapped young white man and tortured him, forcing him to say things against Trump and against white people.
There have also been reports of people masquerading as KKK to insinuate that Trump supports the KKK which he doesn't. Even black people have donned the white garb for that purpose. They have to keep their dark skin from showing. Under the robe and hood they can deceive even you.
Don't believe everything you read, RAZD.
I am not worried about being killed by a Muslim terrorist, RAZD. That is not the real problem. The problem is that once inside the country they work to change our laws and customs and the cujlture itself to accommodate Islam, and over time to grow their population to the point that they can rule the nation as they want. When their population gets large enough, and it is growing a lot faster than European populations, then you'll see the violence escalate.
Don't believe everything you read, RAZD. May I recommend that you occasionally spend some time at conservative or libertarian or anti-globalist anti-Leftist sources trying to understand the truth as we see it, instead of dismissing it all by the Leftist propaganda formula as "alt right?"
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 7:40 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by herebedragons, posted 01-31-2017 8:54 AM Faith has replied
 Message 95 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 10:41 AM Faith has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 87 of 993 (798126)
01-31-2017 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
01-31-2017 8:46 AM


Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
Nothing here but fear and hate, Faith. That's how we are supposed to live? SMH

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 8:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 01-31-2017 9:04 AM herebedragons has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 88 of 993 (798127)
01-31-2017 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by herebedragons
01-31-2017 8:54 AM


MRe: Pictures worth a thousand words
May God forgive you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by herebedragons, posted 01-31-2017 8:54 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 89 of 993 (798128)
01-31-2017 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by RAZD
01-31-2017 8:10 AM


Re: Trump fires Acting Attorney General
They should have confirmed Sessions by now so that he wouldn't be subject to an Obama appointee's political bias. In fact isn't that likely the reason they are dragging their feet on confirming his appointees, to subject him to his enemies as long as they can get away with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 8:10 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by RAZD, posted 01-31-2017 10:47 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 90 of 993 (798129)
01-31-2017 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by herebedragons
01-31-2017 8:37 AM


Re: Trump fires Acting Attorney General
There are plenty of Republicans against Trump.
You think Obama didn't act like an autocrat? What world are you living in?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by herebedragons, posted 01-31-2017 8:37 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
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