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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Some evidence for voter fraud | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome back Faith
Alex Jones (Infowars = alt news) implies they all voted. From your link:
quote: First lets look at the link:
quote: Curiously we get no reference to this "groundbreaking research" or the methodology of this "research" or to the blog. So I did a little search and found:
quote: So the author said the Washington Time piece is deceptive and that the evidence "did not provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration people were claiming" rather that the extrapolation was solely for the purpose of showing that this kind of voter fraud could not be anywhere near the Trump claim of 5 million -- over 6 times what can only be considered a worst case ball park estimate. So there is no evidence that shows a single adult noncitizens actually voting. Next Alex said
quote: Bold for emphasis. What does the PEW report actually say:
quote: So not only is Alex implying something NOT in the report, but he is using a report that is 5 years out of date, so it doesn't include all the legitimate voters that have been purged by republican states. Again, there is no evidence of anyone actually doing voter fraud in this study. The ONLY case known in the last election was a republican caught in a red state that voted twice for Trump. 12 million records with incorrect addresses does not mean they voted twice. 2.75 people with registrations in multiple states does not mean they voted in those states.Bannon has registration in two states -- did he vote twice? It is possible that I am still registered in Michigan (there is not process to unregister iirc) but I did not vote there (I would have voted there instead of RI if I had the choice -- because MI) 1.8 million deceased individuals still on the registry does not mean someone voted for them, just that they are still registered and haven't been purged (unless in one of the red states that purged everyone they could, whether they were legitimate or not). But the biggest number is 51 million eligible citizens remain unregistered. This is an order of magnitude larger than Trumps petty claim. And I expect this number to be significantly bigger in 2016, especially in the red states that were purging legitimate voters and blocking people from voting -- THAT is the REAL fraud in this election. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
And if I can I will come back and add evidence on the numbers that attended the inauguration. At the moment I can say I've heard that the photo offered in proof of extremely low attendance at Trump's inauguration is false, and it looked false to me when I first saw it. ... Just find a picture that does not show white at the far end but does show the monument there. Here is one from the 2015 Million Man March for reference:
Here is one from Trump Inauguration taken at a low angle (tends to hide gaps)
Note that you can still see a gap just over the media tower and smaller lines for gaps beyond that, and that the end of the mall is white and finally I only count 4 "jumbotron" screens that showed the inauguration stage for people to see and hear in real time. Now look at this:
quote: Noon, 40 minutes later. There would have to be an explosion of late-comers to fill the mall out to match either of Obama's inauguration crowds. Is there any evidence of a late large surge in crowd size? Here is a video showing the whole day for comparison. The crowd never fills the mall, there is no large surge in people arriving, they just straggle in:
Then there is this Trump supporter video:
quote: quote: Does that set the matter to rest for you? Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The discussions at Infowars took into account the age of the data. And of course it's obvious that 800,000 is not three to five million, nobody is overlooking that. They are talking about having MANY studies from different locations in different years, which they'll be covering over some time. Of course they are. Talk is cheap. I repeat that the ONLY case of voter fraud in the last election was a woman that tried to vote twice for Trump. She said it was because of all the talk about voter fraud, so she wanted to counterbalance it. This is the danger of spreading false information. ie -- prove it, THEN we can talk. Meanwhile I still note that:
quote: 51 million UNREGISTERED LEGITIMATE VOTERS is way more than all the trumped up assumed numbers from republicans, and that was in 2012. It's worse now with the voter ID laws that have been used to disenfranchise legitimate voters. The republicans are using multiple voting MYTH to justify disenfranchising legitimate voters, So I will be happy with a full study and ways to rectify any actual voter fraud as long as legitimate voters are embraced and allowed to vote. Tit for tat eh? Of course 51 million voters would have likely changed the election, while the pretend voter fraud didn't. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Something I left out of my previous post: The two pictures you said to identify by the presence of the monument are not so easy to judge because the distances are different. Look at this then
If you go to the link here and page down to the text "Now we move a little closer." (you can also do find "Now we move a little closer" to go there) these two pictures are arranged so that you can move the center bar right and left to compare the crowds. They are from the same camera location, picture angle and viewing distance. I made a quick video of this with my phone:
Sorry the clarity is so poor (you will likely need to view it full screen) but it gives you an idea of how the sliding bar on the website works. Then go down to the next detail shot
This also is set up so that you can slide the center bar back and forth to see the differences in the crowds on the webpage. There really is no comparison of the crowd sizes that does not show the Obama 2009 inauguration significantly larger than Trumps: you will not find any photos of the Trump inauguration that does not show the white ground in the areas shown by those last photos. Accept it, because the only person it is important to is TrumpleThinSkin and his overbearing ego. He won the election, the crowd size does not matter. Let it go and breath. The general population is likely more concerned with the next showing of "Smackdown" (WWE) than this. Enjoy Edited by Admin, : Narrow image default width slightly.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I keep trying to compare the pictures with each other and am finding it hard to find clear points of reference, making it very hard to judge the soze pf the crpwds. I still don't really know what degree of authenticity to assign to the long shots, or what numbers are represented by them. See Message 17 for some additional photo information
But I don't need Trump's crowd to be as large as Obama's, I've said I don't think it was, though Trump may have thought it was; and that looks like a pretty huge crowd to me in any case. Thanks for your honesty here. Indeed I agree, the crowd is large enough for any president to feel welcome, especially with the viewing location he had.
But what would help put things in perspective is to see the original pictures Trump was objecting to as showing the crowd from some perspective that in his judgment minimized the actual numbers, based on his view from his position up front. I don't see anything in these photos that makes that comparison. Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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RAZD, in part above, wrote:
I repeat that the ONLY case of voter fraud in the last election was a woman that tried to vote twice for Trump. She said it was because of all the talk about voter fraud, so she wanted to counterbalance it. Yes. And there was another Trump woman who voted Trump for herself and then also Trump for her dead husband, certain he would have voted that way. Thanks for the correction. This is one of the things that worries me, the GOP echo machine makes such a fuss of voter fraud that their audience feels (a) it is easy to do and (b) this enables them to do it because the "other side" is doing it. We really do need a national overhaul of voting from registration regulations to machines to how we vote (paper ballots, mail ins, etc) And I'll challenge anyone to review this and argue that 51 million eligible voters not being registered is as big or bigger of a problem the the possibility of individuals voting more than once, assuming ALL others make illegal votes ...
... still leaves 34.45 people not able to vote (not registered): what is the greater problem. It is rather disturbing that republicans look at the PEW summary and not see the first group as a problem. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country. Personally I think the problem is all in his head, and his head alone. That may be an indication of an obsessive ego, but I hope not, for the sake of the country. He's trolling the media! He's got them so wound up over so many issues that they're losing it completely and biting their own tails! And I believe he's doing it both deliberately and with a lot of prior thought. He's got them so wound up over so many issues that they're losing it completely and biting their own tails! And I believe he's doing it both deliberately and with a lot of prior thought. Just as he trolled republicans during the primaries and the election campaign. The voters bought it. Be careful what you wish for. Personally I am somewhat not upset that the DNC got their asses handed to them across the nation: they need to wake up and return to being the party of the working people or the working people will find a new party -- they don't want cocktail party corporation sucking republican light DINOs.
He's trolling the media! Is he? What I find disturbing is the leaked reports from his staff at his rage about the inauguration size coverage on TV and especially the comparison the next day to the massive crowds for the women's march, the biggest crowd in US history. Why does he care that much? The stockmarket breaks a new record, what does he do? Complains to the CIA people about his crowd size and the news is about Trump not the stock market, and not him taking credit for it shooting up after his election the way another politician would. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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moved to The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess. Edited by RAZD, : .
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I keep trying to tell you it is not about the crowd size per se, it's about his perception that the media lied about it in its original reports. ... It's about both, Faith, it is about his self image as the only important person in the world (massive ego) and it's about his pogrom on the media, continually shading them and accusing them of lies even when the facts are in your face verified.
... as far as I know -- we'd need to see the original pictures he saw and I don't know if that's in any of the ones shown here. ... Try this site. I find it slanted to the right and more apologetic that unbiasd.
quote: Here is the video
People straggle in fill out some clumps around the large TV screens, and then they leave. Now I looked up Clayborn Research Group ...
quote: Curiously I note that the paper has a single author, it is an opion piece, the holding company was set up in 2016 (the research group was set up in 2014), and the company website is hosted by amazon. Their papers are listed on:https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...research/research.html Seems to me that they are trying to 'normalize' Trump as someone who was mistaken instead of someone who is obsessed. Let's look at Trumps RAGE that the Women's March the next day drew larger crowds to the mall, as well as millions around the world. See if you can 'normalize' that. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Pogrom on the media? That's a laugh. Black humor unfortunately. The media are out to undermine Trump with their every word, but his corrective accurate self-defense is a "pogrom?" Including all the foreign media? Fascinating.
I guess I missed whatever Trump said about the women's march. I'm certainly not taking your word for his attitude given your record of liberal spin on everything we've discussed so far. "Rage?" About what? quote: So yes, it is about both. More here from Washington Post Leaked by aides within his inner circle. Also check out Republican Leaders are Privately Raising Concerns about Donald Trumps 'Emotional Maturity and Stability,' Says Carl Bernstein Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The problem is that white "flooring" that they put down to protect the grass. Pink hats at the Women's March show up against that background. White robes and white hoods don't. I'm stealing that for facebook by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The NC voter ID law allowed gun permits as valid ID but not student IDs. The pathetic excuse I heard was that it had to do with how long the ID's were valid for - can someone have a student ID from two different institutions (community college and state university)?
Also, I would agree with having to show a photo ID when you go to vote. When I voted early, I and everybody else I saw there had their IDs out to be checked, even though it was not necessary. But if you are going to pass a law that requires a photo ID to vote, then you had damned well better be sure to provide all registered voters with those photo IDs! If you cannot or will not provide all registered voters with photo IDs, then don't require them! The post offices are equipped to take passport photos, so it should be relatively easy to let them make photo IDs for voting. The departments of motor vehicles are generally capable of making photo IDs for people who want to use them for alcohol purchases etc., however the states implementing these laws generally shut down the offices in certain neighborhoods (for "economic reasons" ... )
... But if you are going to pass a law that requires a photo ID to vote, then you had damned well better be sure to provide all registered voters with those photo IDs! If you cannot or will not provide all registered voters with photo IDs, then don't require them! ... It could be phased in, with ID making equipment at the polling stations so that every registered voters can get a standard format ID, and these digital images could be retained in a data base so that photos can be scanned and compared for fraud. Every citizen should be allowed to vote freely and easily. It is also pretty clear that Photo ID's are NOT used to prevent duplicate voting, as claimed: ... the vetting stops with looking at a photo ID to see it is the person in front of you. So there is absolutely no question in my mind that the only intention of these photo ID laws were the suppression of votes.
This is as fake as "trickle-down" ... it is a joke, it is a scam, a fraud. They come from ALEC. If we can register every 18 year old man and woman for the draft, we can provide automatic photo ID "draft cards" that the Federal Government decrees is valid for any and all public elections. The same can be issued when a person becomes a citizen.. Next get rid of the corruptible voting machines and return to paper ballots that can be recounted. Make them instant runoff ballots while we are at it. #PaperBallots #PurpleFingers #AllVotersCount Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Gregg Phillips has active voter registrations in three states. Indeed, and several other people associated with Trump have multiple registrations (Bannon has two).
quote: So the fact that registrations exist for dead people and multiple registrations are on record for some people in multiple states does not add up to fraudulent voting -- that only occurs when (a) someone votes pretending to be a dead person (like the republican women that cast a vote for her dead husband) (b) people attempt to vote twice in the same state (like the republican woman that was caught) and (c) when a person votes in multiple states because they are registered there. Like Gregg Phillips could have but didn't. And we still don't have an accurate count of the people that were disenfranchised by states purging their voter lists with fairly loose criteria. Nor do we have an accurate count of people who's votes were not counted or counted incorrectly by voting machines ... because the recounts were halted by the republicans. Likewise there is no accurate count to how many votes were added by the precincts tabulation machines, which we know DID occur in at least one location when the total votes tabulated exceeded the number of voters. If you are truly interested in the truth about voting then you need to look at ALL the types of fraud that can be perpetuated. So far it looks like the number of people who managed to cast multiple votes, undetected to date, is minuscule compared to the other forms of election fraud. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
ll walls are barriers but all barriers are not walls. To say Hillary Clinton supported a wall like Trumps is a lie. I have to go with Faith on this. The wall\barrier\fence that exists NOW was passed to limit illegal immigration, Hillary was for it as were most politicians. The problem with Trump's wall is that the methods used to circumvent the current barrier will still exist. That makes it is about political showmanship, not practical concept. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Had. When this came out a few days ago Florida canceled him. Also consider who is more likely to maintain two homes, such as one in New York and one in Florida, rich people or poor people. Voter fraud is a red-herring to hide election fraud by voter suppression. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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