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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Disgusting Berkeley Riots | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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One report I heard described a peaceful protest that was then infiltrated by over a hundred out-of-town "agitators." A common tactic to discredit peaceful protests. It only takes a handful and the media is all over it like the hairpiece on Trumps head. The news cycles show the violence and not the peaceful protests. There are groups that admit to doing this because either (a) they don't think peaceful protest will work and isn't powerful enough of a message, or (b) because they want to break things and blame someone else.
They cancelled the speaker. Clearly the violence was aimed at shutting people up they disagree with. I guess this is the "Anti Free Speech Movement" in contrast to the 60s protests. They cancelled the speech to prevent violence. Sadly that didn't work. A better protest would have been to buy up all the tickets and leave the auditorium empty. It's been done. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Could have been the work of "outside agitators." Perhaps there will be some information coming about that. Ever since the 60's it is well known that police and FBI infiltrate groups and foment violence. The worked to discredit MLK and other rights leaders running peaceful non-violent protests. Several have been identified as recently as the Occupy movement.
... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that. quote: That red symbol being spraypainted is the symbol for anarchists. See their facebook page So we can thank Trump for inspiring more people to turn to the dark side.
... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that. Actually peaceful non-violent protesters do not condone the anarchy group/s in any way shape or form, because the ruin the value of the peaceful non-violent protests by distracting people/media/etc away from the issue of the protest to make it about violence.
quote: Sadly. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : addedby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I don't really see much of this supposed condemnation of the violence from the Left, or from the media etc. The anarchists' views seem to be popular, even if the violence is tepidly decried. And you don't believe me when I say the media is biased against non-violent leftists and doesn't show them or talk about them, waiting for the violence to occur before they consider it "newsworthy" ... One of the first protests I was involved in was a peaceful sit-in for minimum wages at the university to apply to the black housecleaners. The local news was called and informed, and they asked if there was any violence, no? let us know when there is and we'll send a camera around ...
We don't really hear much from the Left denouncing the violence of the protestors, decrying the violent speech of those who want Trump to be assassinated, the white house blown up etc., and it seems to me we often hear sympathy with the violent demonstrations instead, even characterizing Trump supporters more or less as deserving it, because after all we're evil just as the anarchists think we are. Well you won't see it on Faux Noise Nutwerk or any other of your "newsy" sources, it doesn't fit their agenda. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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OK, I guess I missed your saying that the media is biased against non-violent Leftists. ... What did you see reported about the rallies that Bernie had? I attended one in a park in downtown Providence RI and not a single TV station covered it.
OR, they could write their complaint all over the internet. ... There are pictures on the internet, go look for Bernie Rally ...
... That's interesting if so, but then you'd think I'd hear about them from the conservative media I listen to most, and I don't. They could call into many conservative talk shows and protest the media bias against them. Conservatives would be happy to know this. ... I'd see it, the conservative internet would pick it up etc. Why isn't that happening? It tends to contradict your claim. Or your assumption that conservative media would cover it is false. Why should they give you information that would let you know there were alternatives to the narrative they provide? You appear to live in a conservative sanitized bubble faith, and you are told to distrust anything that might contradict the conservative narrative. This is why I say your (conservative narrative) claim that the media is left biased is wrong, it is status quo corporatist biased, ignoring the far right and the progressive left. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Here is some more information on the anarchists from USA today
quote: You can also find information about Black Bloc on wikipedia Anarchists oppose both right and left parties and want to destroy all government. In this they are closer to libertarians than progressives. See Anarchism on wikipedia Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I hope that's true, because I'd rather not think the Left has turned violent and decided to destroy the nation because of Trump. (1) it's not the left. Leftist organizations reject them. Nor are they Rightist. They do have some things in common with libertarians and Tea party extremists that want to tear down government, and they do have some things in common with Bannon who wants to destroy government from the inside. (2) they've been around since the '80's, long before Trump.
But there are questions. It was an older man not wearing black who pepper-sprayed the young woman wearing the Trump hat (I wrongly said shirt earlier). Interestingly this happened right after she told an interviewer that she's sure the protestors are mostly nonviolent. This on video. So that could be another agitator trying to cause violence, such as an agent provocateur looking to maximize impact by getting it on TV.
And there is still the question why these guys could get away with it. There should have been massive police action and arrests. So they're hiding their identity in black, you can still go after the guys in black when you see them hit or stomp somebody or start a fire etc, why didn't that happen? Some were arrested. Not many people will confront violent people.
I've been watching Infowars ... An excellent site to stay away from imho. Have you ever tried Democracy Now? They seem to me to be one of the last bastions of true journalism.
... (you can hold the ad hominems) and they have coverage of stuff you won't see elsewhere, including people who were at these events describing such things as that women were being especially targeted, and that pleas to the cops, at the inauguration protests anyway, got the answer that they were told by the President (Obama) not to intervene, even when a bloodied victim appealed for help. The "mainstream" media seems to shy away from such reports. Have they shown how "water protector" protestors at the #NoDAPL protest were treated (maced, dogs, smokebombs, water canons in subzero temperatures, etc etc etc)? If not then they only show one narrative.
Another report was that a large number of people were kept from getting into the inauguration by a crowd of Black Lives Matter terrorists among others. Suggests that for whatever reason the police are not doing their jobs. #BlackLivesMatter protestors are not terrorists, blocking roads with peaceful protests is not terrorism but fairly standard protest behavior.
But I'm sure you've turned up one important element in the problem at least. Good, because it is only when the marginalized right can work with the marginalize left and middle that we will begin to heal this country. Recognize that the real problems are not between left and right so much as between oppressive wealth and oppressed poor. We can't fight the thumb pushing us down if we constantly fight each other. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Funny. In spite of that claim that they are against government, I suspect there wouldn't have been any protests if Hillary had won. Several protests were planned, especially related to wall street regulation, and war proliferation, and oil fracking, and pipelines, and black lives matter, and $15/hr minimum wage, and free tuition ... Bernie planned to hold rallies to promote these issues and hold Hillary\DNA to their purported commitment to the platform. ... because Hillary is republican-lite. She compares herself to Eisenhower (Nixon would be closer). She would maintain the status quo corporatist oligarchy. Protest is a valuable tool in a functional democracy, because it demonstrates disagreement between government and the people. Freedom of speech. When we give up the right to protest the country is in grave danger. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses. The prime weapon is peaceful protest. Always has been. The prime weapon of progressives is peaceful protest because that is the way we get the good results. Civil rights, antiwar, lesbian gay etc. This is based on MLK, who based it on Gandhi who based it on Thoreau (civil disobedience). Thoreau is so revered in India that when Walden Pond was going to be developed into an amusement park they raised funds to buy the land and turn it into a state park. (Damn foreigners interfering with American business rights to destroy everything). Violent action is one of the weapons of Anarchists quote: It is also closer linked to Libertarian than progressive "weapons"
Libertarian education and freethought, See also: Anarchism and education and Freethought Meanwhile the anarchist group involved in these protests -- the ones that spraypaint the red anarchist "A" symbol are members of Black Bloc quote: So you might have to be stupid, ignorant, insane or wicked ... or badly myopic ... to lump the violence of anarchists with the peaceful protesters ... just because main stream and right wing media tells you to. and ignorance is not a crime, unless it is not a temporary condition. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
That's not all
quote: Even nutty right wing conspiracy folk think he's too far out there. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I may have been a victim of fake news ... Surreal. As I've said before Faith, the more one needs to deny things the less real one's world view becomes. Not just in science but politics and news. This is how I judge my opinions. There are things I do deny and some that I would like to deny but which would be pointless (like Trump being president). Now I don't deny that fake news exists -- the Bowling Green Massacre and the Swedish 'Night of Terror' being examples. The largest category of fake news is propaganda -- statements that tread lightly on the line of reality and gaslight us to cross over to a surreal world view. The Trump pogrom on the news (enemy of the people) is an example: if he can get us to distrust all news regardless of source or accuracy then that leaves us more vulnerable to further gaslighting
quote: " ... it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief." -- I think we can all agree that there is a lot of this going around, in speeches and in news stories. Our job as American citizens is to sort through this barrage of (information + misinformation) to find validity. There was no Bowling Green Massacre and there was no Swedish 'Night of Terror' ...
... fake news against Yiannopolous. I don't know yet. Curiously I consider Yiannopolous to be fake news, I find it hard to believe the media persona shown is real, that it is not an act, that his purpose is to outrage you, gradually gaslighting you along, going further and further into a bizarre - surreal - world. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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There is now an assertion that the shooting of the Indians was not hate despite what the person said because he was drunk. Well he was white and the victims were colored, so he must be innocent ... by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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His thinking they were Arabs makes them Arabs as far as the main point goes. That's all. Sheesh. No Faith, his thinking they were Arabs makes him a fracking racist myopic ignorant idiot xenophobe gun happy dreg of American excrement that thinks that people of color are targets of convenience for shooting regardless of who they are, or what they do, and that perceived problems are solved by randomly shooting people. And if you don't understand that I can tell you how I really feel by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Gee, sounds a lot like Black Lives Matter. Yep. It sounds like "lives matter" so people should stop shooting people. When unarmed black lives are shot woth little excuse, those lives matter.
Message 160: I'm very glad to hear it, that is. if you understood properly that "cops and white people" are to be substituted for "people of color." Only so long as it does not obscure the epidemic of black lives shootings. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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You can address inequities for women, blacks, gays or any other group without Marxist Liberationism. I don't know if I can convince you that the term itself is the problem, it carries a ton of Marxist baggage. Okay, so stop using it. I am not away of ANY of the groups I'm involved with calling themselves Marxist Liberationists. But you seem to find them everywhere. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... started by three Marxist revolutionaries. Again, I don't know any. Were these people classified as such by one of your websites or do they self-identify as Marxist revolutionaries - because that has not come up on any sites I've visited re BLM.
quote: Let's go over that last sentence, because that is how I perceive the movement to be organized:
... The overall Black Lives Matter movement, however, is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy. It started as a Facebook post that then became a hashtag on social media. People that go to BLM protests do so on their own will to protest against the deaths of African Americans by police actions or while in police custody. Protests are spontaneous, with notice going out on social media. It is people coming together to protest what they find to be unacceptable discriminatory behavior. The only "violence" I've seen during the protests I have been involved with were perpetuated by white male confederate flag waving skinheads, with "all lives matter" banners and trucks rigged to give off foul exhaust aimed at the BLM marchers, but then I don't live in a hotbed of racial injustice or where there is a history of violent racism (ie south). Now let's look at the "organizers" listed:
... The originators of the hashtag and call to action, Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi, ... quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization. Then there is this:
quote: The rest of the article is well worth reading. There is no mention of being aligned in any way with Marxism. Curiously the ONLY mention I find is on extreme right wing sites that associate BLM with the Freedom Road Socialist Organization in order to tar BLM with the Marxist brush. This is typical of right wing sites, imho. Calling someone a Marxist doesn't make them one. So I find it very strange that not one liberal or leftist group or website that I could find mentions any such connection between BLM and Marxism. That connection seems to exist only inside the right wing bubble. Furthermore, even IF they were Marxist revolutionaries, that doesn't make the movement or anyone else involved Marxist. It is a civil rights movement. Enjoy ps - does the tan text help? Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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