Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response

Faith, simply ignoring the relevant differences does not make a case. Remember that the Trump Administration originally intended to turn back Green Card holders at the airport which, it seems is not even within the scope of the law that Trump is relying on.In contrast the Obama order did not even effect people who already had visas - simply people applying for refugee visas. From a Constituional perspective this is almost certainly legal even without a reason, and I don't doubt that the courts would take the reason into account. It is certainly not subject to the most important objections raised against Trump's orders which centre on people who already have been issued visas.And, I might point out that the lack of warning is rather more important when it means people being turned back at the airport rather than the processing of applications.So the claim that the objections are purely political doesn't hold water. To give one just example the companies objecting because their employees can't come to the U.S. to work aren't objecting because of politics. They are objecting because they are being hurt for no good reason, without any consultation.

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"My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror," Trump wrote in a Jan. 29 statement. "To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting.

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Yawn.What you cited is quite clearly Trump making claims that there is no difference, and is not the opinion from Politifact at all. In fact, you quoted zero text from the actual opinion, which is entitled: "Why comparing Trump's and Obama's immigration restrictions is flawed."We know that Trump is currently claiming to be following Obama's lead here, but that claim is nonsense. Further, what you cited makes no attempt to argue fro Trumps' position. it is instead mere assertion in an article full of fact citing and argument demonstrating that Trump's calim is nonsense.Nice job of making your case. You have single handedly exposed Trump as a liar. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Politifact said Trump's claim was correct up to a point. Then they went on to their opinion that the differences are great. I don't see it, as I said. Yes I should have quoted more, don't know why I didn't but I was having a lot of trouble getting anything to post at all.The point of posting that was to get the facts into the picture, they show the similarity of the basic facts quite clearly. I couldn't care less what Politifact thinks of any of it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It says the similarities are 'superficial' and the differences significant. The similarity is that they limited immigration. That's it. That isn't what people are protesting that has inspired the 'wacko liberal response' - the reasons for protesting lie in the differences.

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n 2011, there was a specific threat

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You were at war with the nation in question, and two people tied to IED manufacture in Iraq got through the vetting process, so the vetting needed upgrading.What is Trump's specific threat? There is none.

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Obama’s order was narrower in scope

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One country, that you were at war with, the processing of one kind of visa and refugees, and the revetting of those already processed. Trump's was a ban on all visas, multiple countries.

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The Obama administration in 2011 delayed processing Iraqi refugees for six months following evidence of a failed plot by two Iraqi refugees.

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Trump’s executive order temporarily bars travel to the United States for all citizens from seven countries, and it is not in direct response to actions from citizens of those countries.

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Furthermore, Iraqi refugees were nonetheless admitted to the United States during the 2011 suspension while Trump has put an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees.

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Not sure what you don't see. They differ in significant ways.Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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Politifact said Trump's claim was correct up to a point. Then they went on to their opinion that the differences are great. I don't see it, as I said.

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It wasn't hard to find the major differences. Surely the fact that most of the issues where Trump has (so far) lost in court don't even apply to the Obama order is relevant for a start - and how could you not notice that ? How could you be unaware of the fact that the Trump order lead to turning back or detaining people arriving in the U.S. with valid papers because the order wasn't communicated until they were already in the air ? Something that could not have happened with the Obama order because it did not even apply to people who had valid travel documents ?

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The point of posting that was to get the facts into the picture, they show the similarity of the basic facts quite clearly

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If you want the facts in the picture you should thank me for pointing out the important facts that you missed.

Who cares? I don't. The problems will be ironed out. Meanwhile the factual similarities are exactly as Trump characterized them.

You are all making mountains out of a molehill, which of course is one of the Left's standard tactics. THE POINT WAS TO SHOW THAT OBAMA ALSO LIMITED IMMIGRATION, BECAUSE THE PREVAILING LIE WAS THAT TRUMP WAS ACTING IN SOME COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED WAY THAT WAS UNFAIR TO REFUGEES. THE ESSENCE OF THE MATTER IS THE SAME IN BOTH CASES BUT NOBODY WOULD ACCUSE OF OBAMA OF SUCH PERFIDY, ONLY TRUMP. ALL THE REST IS NATTERING NITPICKING DESIGNED TO DISTORT AND DISRUPT. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Who cares? I don't.

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So you don't care about the facts, the law or innocents getting hurt for no good reason. Charming.

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Meanwhile the factual similarities are exactly as Trump characterized them.

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Go on, tell, us what Trump claimed. Is it just the the orders were similar ? I guess you could say that Trump was only misleading by omission on that. Or are you asserting that there are real factual similarities which somehow override the obvious differences which are the basis of many complaints against Trumps order - and even more importantly his legal defeats.

lLYING LEFTIST LOON,. rEAD MY PREVIOUS POST.

THE POINT IS THAT LIMITING IMMIGRATION MIGHT CAUSE SOME UPSET, BUT WE ALL AGREE IT IS WITHIN THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENT - THE PROBLEM WITH TRUMP'S ORDER IS NOT THE LIMITING OF IMMIGRATION, BUT LIMITING IT SO MUCH AND SO WITHOUT WARNING THAT PEOPLE THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN GRANTED PASSAGE AT THEIR EXPENSE, AND THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAN COMPANIES AND INSTITUTIONS FOUND THEMSELVES UNABLE TO RETURN TO THEIR JOBS AND STUDIES WHILE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAD TRAVEL PLANS (AT THEIR EXPENSE) TO LEAVE THE UNITED STATES HAD TO CANCEL THEIR PLANS - CAUSING CHAOS AND CONFUSION ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE PLAN'S INTENT AND SCOPE WAS POORLY COMMUNICATED SUCH THAT DIFFERENT FEDERAL AGENCIES UNDERSTOOD THE ORDER IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND ALSO THE ADMINISTRATION ITSELF CHANGED ITS MIND AS TO WHAT IT ACTUALLY COVERED 5 TIMES WITHIN THE SPACE OF ONE WEEK. Because Obama didn't screw people over who had already been given the all clear. Obama didn't leave people from a multitude of nations in limbo, students unsure if they could return to study, scientists unable to travel to conferences. He just re-vetted Iraq Special Visa applications, delaying some future refugee and special visa applications. The judiciary seems to disagree with you. I suppose your legal knowledge outstrips theirs.Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

I've read it.It grossly mischaracterises the opposition to Trumps order. It is certainly a fact that my objections from the start of the thread focused on people with valid travel documents. It is certainly a fact the court cases where Trump has lost also focus on such people. It is certainly a fact that such cases did not and could not happen under the Obama order.And you call me "LYING LEFTIST LOON" just for posting facts that you don't like.How "Christian"

It is not that you should have quoted more. You should have read the article which pointed to only superficial similarities. Yeah, there were some superficial similarities, but the substance matters.Of course, you cannot "see it" if you don't ready the article.I cannot take you seriously on this topic, and the other Trump supporters here won't bother making a case. Sigh.

And yet if you were to tell a psychiatrist that an Evil Jew has corrupted all the judges with his Jew Gold ... while Evil Muslims have coerced them all with their Muslim Terror ... and that when you find that an acquaintance of yours is skeptical of this, you suspect that he's a paid member of the Conspiracy ...... then it's not me whom he would identify as being demented.

In my first post to this thread I suggested that suspending the issuing of visas was likely legal and certainly better than what The Trump,administration did. Message 2In my second I raised the importance of having a reason for sudden action: Message 4When I finally got around to talking about refugees - and then only because New Cats Eye raised the issue, I said this: Message 114Anyone who says that I was objecting to the Trump order because of the effects on refugees, or that my objections would apply equally to the Obama order is just plain wrong.

Of course I said nothing of the sort. Perhaps you should go see the psychiatrist.