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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
marc9000
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Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 286 of 4573 (798778)
02-05-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Modulous
02-04-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Castro
So he certainly has admiration for Putin, yes?
He has admiration for him as a leader. It's not uncommon for someone to admire someone else who is good at what he also believes himself to be good at.
As you noted, Trump also said this;
quote:
I respect Putin and Russians but cannot believe our leader (Obama) allows them to get away with so much...Hats off to the Russians
He was praising Putin for good leadership for himself and his people, but not necessarily for the actions he took (takes) for the rest of the world. Sanders' praise of Castro wasn't the same, he praised him for the actions he took, implying that the American people should have those exact same actions taken against them.
Context. Both Trump and Sanders have it at their disposal. Trump is praising Putin for his strong leadership and internal approval while disagreeing with some of his actions, Sanders is acknowledging Castro improved life for the common people and suggesting this would inhibit a revolution against him by sufficiently giving him internal approval while acknowledging Castro was not perfect and held power undemocratically.
Sanders saying that Castro wasn't perfect with no specificity, isn't much of a statement, nobody's perfect. Sander's campaign of put-downs of American success, his ideas for America's common people, showed a longing for Castro's power and action. Trump neither desires or needs any of Putin's ideas, but his co-operation in fighting ISIS, and an avoidance of making him an enemy, could be to a Trump and U.S. advantage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2017 10:31 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 2:08 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 287 of 4573 (798779)
02-05-2017 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Modulous
02-04-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Castro
Double post
Edited by marc9000, : Double post

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2017 10:31 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 288 of 4573 (798786)
02-05-2017 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by marc9000
02-05-2017 1:49 PM


Re: Castro
He has admiration for him as a leader
Yes, that's what I said:
quote:
Trump is praising Putin for his strong leadership
Sanders' praise of Castro wasn't the same, he praised him for the actions he took
He said his own people were disinclined to rebel because he had placated them.
Sanders saying that Castro wasn't perfect with no specificity, isn't much of a statement, nobody's perfect.
He was talking about the probability of revolution in Nicaragua, based on the reasons for the failure to incite one in Cuba. His point was that the idea the people would rise up because Americans thought Castro was evil was deluded on the grounds that the Cubans thought of him more as the lesser possible evil (better the devil you know).
Trying to spin it otherwise is hardly honest, is it?
showed a longing for Castro's power and action.
No it didn't. It showed he thought that providing food, education and healthcare was a disincentive for a popular uprising. Quite rightly.
Trump neither desires or needs any of Putin's ideas
Well crony capitalism is hardly Putin's idea, but its part of his and Trump's MO.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 1:49 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 3:07 PM Modulous has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(5)
Message 289 of 4573 (798788)
02-05-2017 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by RAZD
01-29-2017 12:01 PM


To many , Americans have always been revolting.
Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.

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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 290 of 4573 (798803)
02-05-2017 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Percy
02-04-2017 6:17 PM


Re: GOP votes to allow dumping of mining debris in streams
But this is a great example of why Trump worries so many. The large increase in the national debt as a percentage of GDP during the Obama years (continuing a trend begun during the Bush administration) was made necessary by the bailouts, stimulus programs and assistance programs put in place after the financial collapse, which occurred because of Republican rollbacks of Glass-Steagal regulations during the Bush years, and which was the worst recession since the Great Depression.
I don't think financial collapses happen because of a lessening of the size and scope of government, I think they happen because of real-economic events, like the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and like the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. $4.70 per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel in early 2008 didn't help either.
The 2008 financial collapse made clear the necessity of regulations like Glass-Steagal, and so they were replaced by the Dodd-Frank regulations during the Obama years, but Trump wants to roll them back, exposing us to the risk of another financial collapse in the future.
I think it makes clear the necessity of FEWER environmental regulations that make the U.S. so dependent of unstable world oil markets. It also makes clear the importance of not repeating the social engineering mistakes that led to the Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac disaster. No one contributed to it more than the ~Frank~ in Dodd-Frank, a big government liberal named Barney Frank. His powerful position on the House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services gave him leverage to force through legislation and policies which pressured banks and other lenders to grant mortgage loans to people who would not qualify under the standards which had long prevailed, and had long made mortgage loans among the safest investments around. This was done in the name of promoting more home-ownership among people who had neither the income nor the credit history that would meet traditional mortgage lending standards.
I'm not in favor of big financial cushions. Not only do they have costs, but their existence makes those like Barney Frank less accountable for their actions. Makes the public less aware of what actually happened. And makes our society less likely to avoid repeating those mistakes in the future. Maybe Trump looks at it that way too.
I think the decline in new business starts is less a result of regulations than of the lack of availability of loan money. The Dodd-Frank financial controls are in part responsible because they force banks to carry greater reserves, making less money available for loans, particularly for the more risky loans associated with new businesses. The rollbacks Trump envisions should make loan money more available, but it also exposes us to greater risks of financial stresses bringing on another collapse. I hope the rollbacks are done carefully.
I hope the government leaves to free markets who can and can't afford a home.
I don't hate Trump either. He's scary because he's uninformed, undisciplined, uncaring, vindictive and impulsive, characteristics made all the more clear by his incredible record during his short time in office. He's caused turmoil, fear and confusion in almost everything he's done, foreign affairs and immigration in particular.
His record's incredible all right, he's actually doing the things he campaigned on. Most of the turmoil, fear and confusion is just all the news media sensationalism. There are many montages on youtube showing all the arrogant Hollywood elites, some Democrat politicians, and some news media experts taunting how Trump was never going to be president. They were so desperate to gloat about that after the election that they took a chance and went out on a limb with their predictions. The limb broke, and they do actually blame Trump for it. They're always going to hate him.
Trade is another area where Trump is so scary. Trade is not a problem, it's a benefit. Free trade makes all countries wealthier. It is a true dilemma that our high wages cause low-skill manufacturing jobs to flee overseas to lower wage venues, but high wages and low-skill jobs cannot coexist. Low-skill manufacturing jobs will only stage a comeback in the US when Americans begin accepting $4/hour wages, and I don't think anyone sees that happening anytime soon. Trumps attacks on free trade will only make economic conditions worse. Certainly they will cause higher prices.
Trump's not against trade, he's against the wrong kind of trade. Since we're $20 trillion in debt, a critical look at current trade practices, along with a critical look at production-stifling government regulations, makes sense to some people.
marc9000 writes:
Fishing streams contain economic promise?
Maybe you didn't hear, but House Republicans, on the assumption that Trump will sign the bill, passed legislation wiping out the Stream Protection Rule that prevents coal companies from dumping slag and waste into rivers and streams.
I heard, and I saw economic promise in that bill. I'll never understand how you can think that imposed costs, with no product or service as a result, can be good economically.
If they don't dump slag in those rivers and streams, then they'll have to pay more to transport it somewhere else. They can't send it to outer space, so it will end up somewhere else on this planet. Or they can quit producing coal, resulting in higher energy prices for everyone. Common sense science, not emotion or the maintenance of environmentalists lifestyles, should make determinations about how much waste slag is too much in any particular area.
Trump's dismal first couple weeks didn't happen because of the news media. It doesn't take the news media to show Mr. Bombast and Ignorance for what he is. I grew up in New Jersey across the water from New York City - I'm very familiar with Trump from way, way back, and his recent behavior as both campaigner and president give me no reason to change my mind.
Way, way back? He was a private businessman until very recently, what did his activities have to do with you? As I said earlier, I didn't pay much attention to him because he couldn't fire me. Did he fire you?
I don't concern myself with people who can't interfere with my life unless I choose to do business with them. So that rules out most people, except politicians and bureaucrats. Trump is one now - he deserves a chance of more than a couple of weeks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Percy, posted 02-04-2017 6:17 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Percy, posted 02-06-2017 9:45 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 291 of 4573 (798807)
02-05-2017 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Modulous
02-05-2017 2:08 PM


Re: Castro
Trying to spin it otherwise is hardly honest, is it?
Haha, that does go both ways. Maybe a revolution didn't happen because Cubans weren't allowed to have guns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 2:08 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 3:17 PM marc9000 has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 292 of 4573 (798809)
02-05-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by marc9000
02-05-2017 3:07 PM


Re: Castro
Haha, that does go both ways.
Yes, I said this already:
quote:
Context. Both Trump and Sanders have it at their disposal.
Maybe a revolution didn't happen because Cubans weren't allowed to have guns.
Doubtful. Since this is in fact not true. Castro armed his workers in preparation for US attacks creating a large militia. If anything, the Bay of Pigs was even more doomed on the grounds there was a large citizen militia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 3:07 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 4:07 PM Modulous has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 293 of 4573 (798815)
02-05-2017 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Modulous
02-05-2017 3:17 PM


Re: Castro
Doubtful. Since this is in fact not true. Castro armed his workers in preparation for US attacks creating a large militia.
His workers, but not the general public.
quote:
Fidel Castro made his victorious post-revolution entry into Havana, Cuba on January 8, 1959. The next day, Castro's regime began collecting guns and disarming the population.
www.RadioShowNotes.com: Fidel Castro's "common sense" gun control pitch
From his January 9th, 1959 address;
quote:
As soon as possible I will take the rifles off the streets. There are no more enemies, there is no longer anything to fight against, and if some day any foreigner or any movement comes up against the revolution, all the people will fight. The weapons belong in the barracks. No one has the right to have private armies here.
Kind of reminds us of Bernie Sanders, or.....Hillary Clinton, or.....Barney Frank, or.......just about any Democrat!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 3:17 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 4:43 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 296 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2017 5:38 PM marc9000 has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 294 of 4573 (798817)
02-05-2017 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Percy
02-05-2017 8:12 AM


Re: GOP votes to allow dumping of mining debris in streams
This has already become so painfully obvious that no one, Trump supporter or not, can pretend it hasn't happened.
I submit that examples to the contrary can readily be found, with some of them being close at hand.
Is what's going on with the Trump administration what Trump supporters really want to see?
At least some of them, yes.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Percy, posted 02-05-2017 8:12 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 295 of 4573 (798819)
02-05-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by marc9000
02-05-2017 4:07 PM


Re: Castro
His workers, but not the general public.
Since most people worked, they constituted the majority of people in Cuba - and thus the general public.
This isn't really the thread to continue this discussion - the point remains that Sanders wasn't praising Castro, he was saying that the Nicaraguan people were unlikely to engage in the predicted popular uprising much like the predicted popular uprising of Cuba where Castro had initiated universal healthcare, universal education and reduced unemployment.

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 Message 293 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 4:07 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 296 of 4573 (798820)
02-05-2017 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by marc9000
02-05-2017 4:07 PM


Re: Castro
Do you know anything about gun laws or history of gun laws in Cuba? You speak so authoritatively so I figure you must be well versed. Please tell us about guns in Cuba.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 4:07 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by marc9000, posted 02-05-2017 7:22 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 297 of 4573 (798825)
02-05-2017 6:22 PM


Trump Backtracks on Healthcare, But That's Good
Trump has backtracked on the timetable for replacing Obamacare, but that's a good thing. In a Sunday interview he said that it would take until the end of the year and on into next year to replace Obamacare. He said it would be a "wonderful plan." (Trump: ObamaCare plan could take until next year)
But will Obamacare become a financial albatross to the government before then? Sign-ups are down already this year, probably in reaction to Trump's earlier declarations that it would be replaced quickly. Diminished participation might make Obamacare financially unsound.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 298 of 4573 (798827)
02-05-2017 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Theodoric
02-05-2017 5:38 PM


Re: Castro
Please tell us about guns in Cuba.
Modulous writes:
This isn't really the thread to continue this discussion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2017 5:38 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2017 8:42 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 299 of 4573 (798828)
02-05-2017 7:23 PM


Howard Stern on Trump
{Content deleted - Message is now a new topic}
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Delete content.

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 300 of 4573 (798830)
02-05-2017 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Percy
02-05-2017 6:22 PM


Re: Trump Backtracks on Healthcare, But That's Good
But will Obamacare become a financial albatross to the government before then?
Perhaps that is the idea. Obamacare fails under the weight of Trump's meddling (executive order telling government folks to drag their feet on implementing it) and then gets replaced by next to nothing.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Percy, posted 02-05-2017 6:22 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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