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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Disgusting Berkeley Riots | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You draw the line quite arbitrarily, Faith. The only distinction is that Milo applies his offense to an entire group of people. People rightly respond back to Milo as an individual. How else could it be, Faith? And of course the truth is a perfectly good defense against slander. Not at all arbitrary. Offense may be definable as an opinion perhaps; but slander is a lie about the person. Aren't all his offensive comments just opinion? I already said I didn't like his comments; I don't even know what they are supposed to mean. I see no joke in them. But there is no doubt that slander is something else completely in being an outright lie about a person, which is probably why you can sue for slander but as far as I know not for offense. Nothing arbitrary about it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Offense may be definable as an opinion perhaps; but slander is a lie about the person What you call slander is equally definable as opinion and the offense is equally well seen as a lie. You are doing your best to distinguish between the two, but what you are demonstrating is your ability to give one person a pass even after acknowledging the unsuitability of what he says. What you have not done in several attempts is meaningfully separate offense from offense. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Here is some more information on the anarchists from USA today
quote: You can also find information about Black Bloc on wikipedia Anarchists oppose both right and left parties and want to destroy all government. In this they are closer to libertarians than progressives. See Anarchism on wikipedia Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, it is you having the trouble separating them, because it suits your political viewpoint not to; I have no trouble with it myself.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Here is some more information on the anarchists from USA today ... I hope that's true, because I'd rather not think the Left has turned violent and decided to destroy the nation because of Trump. But there are questions. It was an older man not wearing black who pepper-sprayed the young woman wearing the Trump hat (I wrongly said shirt earlier). Interestingly this happened right after she told an interviewer that she's sure the protestors are mostly nonviolent. This on video. At one of the first "protests" after the election it was young black thugs who dragged a white guy out of his car and beat him, and he wasn't even a Trump supporter. It was also young blacks who bound and tortured the mentally handicapped white guy telling him to denounce Trump and white people. And I doubt all those people calling for the assassination of Trump are Black Bloc. And there is still the question why these guys could get away with it. There should have been massive police action and arrests. So they're hiding their identity in black, you can still go after the guys in black when you see them hit or stomp somebody or start a fire etc, why didn't that happen? I've been watching Infowars off and on recently (you can hold the ad hominems) and they have coverage of stuff you won't see elsewhere, including people who were at these events describing such things as that women were being especially targeted, and that pleas to the cops, at the inauguration protests anyway, got the answer that they were told by the President (Obama) not to intervene, even when a bloodied victim appealed for help. The "mainstream" media seems to shy away from such reports. Another report was that a large number of people were kept from getting into the inauguration by a crowd of Black Lives Matter terrorists among others. Suggests that for whatever reason the police are not doing their jobs. But I'm sure you've turned up one important element in the problem at least. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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It was an older man not wearing black who pepper-sprayed the young woman wearing the Trump hat The videos I've seen (2 of them) show a man in a black jacket wearing black gloves. What videos have you seen? Also she wasn't wearing a Trump hat. It was a red hat - presumably chosen for its association with both Trump and Milo - but it actually said 'Make Bitcoin Great Again'.
There should have been massive police action and arrests. So they're hiding their identity in black, you can still go after the guys in black when you see them hit or stomp somebody or start a fire etc, why didn't that happen? I believe the University police say making arrests in the middle of a riot would have put themselves and innocents in danger; that they were more focussed on getting people to safety.
I've been watching Infowars off and on recently (you can hold the ad hominems) and they have coverage of stuff you won't see elsewhere, including people who were at these events describing such things as that women were being especially targeted, and that pleas to the cops, at the inauguration protests anyway, got the answer that they were told by the President (Obama) not to intervene, even when a bloodied victim appealed for help. The "mainstream" media seems to shy away from such reports. One assumes they were unable to find any verification for the reports, such as a police officer saying this. Incidentally there were over 200 arrests made in Washington during the inauguration protests. Nine were arrested in New York. Six in Chicago. Six in Portland. Five in Dallas. 3 arrests at UC Berkeley (I believe this number excludes the man who shot another man described below). 1 Trump and Milo supporter shot a peaceful protester at Berkeley, turned himself in and was not charged. The victim, shot in the stomach and had 'life-threatening injuries' was described as trying to de-escalate a potentially violent situation has called for no criminal charges and insists he wants a 'dialogue' and restorative justice to occur instead. I don't think any charges were placed against the "Make America Great Again" red hat wearing man who pepper sprayed a 15 year old girl. The girl is being charged after throwing a punch against someone else who said they weren't interesting in filing charges. Allen Scarsella, who was masked up, shot 5 black lives matter protesters at a protest in 2015, was recently found guilty.
Another report was that a large number of people were kept from getting into the inauguration by a crowd of Black Lives Matter terrorists among others Terrorists? Seems a little extreme. Since when is locking arms forming a barrier a terrorist action? It's disruptive, but terrorists? Come come, let's keep that word for people that deserve it. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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ThinAirDesigns Member (Idle past 2395 days) Posts: 564 Joined: |
It's good to know I only need wear black to hide my identity.
JB
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
It's good to know I only need wear black to hide my identity. The uniform wearing of black is seen as a tactic to intimidate, give the impression of an organised movement and to inhibit identification on camera by not displaying characteristic clothing - logos, certain patterns etc. The wearing of gloves, masks and scarves over the faces is how to hide your identity. Read RAZD's Message 63 more carefully:
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I hope that's true, because I'd rather not think the Left has turned violent and decided to destroy the nation because of Trump. (1) it's not the left. Leftist organizations reject them. Nor are they Rightist. They do have some things in common with libertarians and Tea party extremists that want to tear down government, and they do have some things in common with Bannon who wants to destroy government from the inside. (2) they've been around since the '80's, long before Trump.
But there are questions. It was an older man not wearing black who pepper-sprayed the young woman wearing the Trump hat (I wrongly said shirt earlier). Interestingly this happened right after she told an interviewer that she's sure the protestors are mostly nonviolent. This on video. So that could be another agitator trying to cause violence, such as an agent provocateur looking to maximize impact by getting it on TV.
And there is still the question why these guys could get away with it. There should have been massive police action and arrests. So they're hiding their identity in black, you can still go after the guys in black when you see them hit or stomp somebody or start a fire etc, why didn't that happen? Some were arrested. Not many people will confront violent people.
I've been watching Infowars ... An excellent site to stay away from imho. Have you ever tried Democracy Now? They seem to me to be one of the last bastions of true journalism.
... (you can hold the ad hominems) and they have coverage of stuff you won't see elsewhere, including people who were at these events describing such things as that women were being especially targeted, and that pleas to the cops, at the inauguration protests anyway, got the answer that they were told by the President (Obama) not to intervene, even when a bloodied victim appealed for help. The "mainstream" media seems to shy away from such reports. Have they shown how "water protector" protestors at the #NoDAPL protest were treated (maced, dogs, smokebombs, water canons in subzero temperatures, etc etc etc)? If not then they only show one narrative.
Another report was that a large number of people were kept from getting into the inauguration by a crowd of Black Lives Matter terrorists among others. Suggests that for whatever reason the police are not doing their jobs. #BlackLivesMatter protestors are not terrorists, blocking roads with peaceful protests is not terrorism but fairly standard protest behavior.
But I'm sure you've turned up one important element in the problem at least. Good, because it is only when the marginalized right can work with the marginalize left and middle that we will begin to heal this country. Recognize that the real problems are not between left and right so much as between oppressive wealth and oppressed poor. We can't fight the thumb pushing us down if we constantly fight each other. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Funny. In spite of that claim that they are against government, I suspect there wouldn't have been any protests if Hillary had won.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Funny. In spite of that claim that they are against government, I suspect there wouldn't have been any protests if Hillary had won. Several protests were planned, especially related to wall street regulation, and war proliferation, and oil fracking, and pipelines, and black lives matter, and $15/hr minimum wage, and free tuition ... Bernie planned to hold rallies to promote these issues and hold Hillary\DNA to their purported commitment to the platform. ... because Hillary is republican-lite. She compares herself to Eisenhower (Nixon would be closer). She would maintain the status quo corporatist oligarchy. Protest is a valuable tool in a functional democracy, because it demonstrates disagreement between government and the people. Freedom of speech. When we give up the right to protest the country is in grave danger. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10038 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Coyote writes: The goal is to shut down any and all opposition through street violence. OMG!!! Just look at those violent protesters!!!!!
If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses. The prime weapon is peaceful protest. Always has been.
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Taq Member Posts: 10038 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: Perhaps you could venture a thought about how so many of the anti-Trump "protests" have in fact become violent? You first have to demonstrate how many anti-Trump protestors have committed violence.
Such a strange opinion suggests that "some" people really don't deserve free speech? Such as people who disagree with the darling opinions of the Left? Conservatives have a strange knack for confusing freedom of speech with freedom from criticism. When someone on the right is criticized they act as if their freedom of speech has been violated. This isn't the case.
Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why? Again it's a rather apt comparison it seems to me. Perhaps you have another word for it? How about Stalinism? Maoism? What we are seeing is conservatives focusing on rare violent events as a means of silencing a largely peaceful protest.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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If you can't see the street violence being a prime weapon on the part of the progs, you need better glasses. The prime weapon is peaceful protest. Always has been. The prime weapon of progressives is peaceful protest because that is the way we get the good results. Civil rights, antiwar, lesbian gay etc. This is based on MLK, who based it on Gandhi who based it on Thoreau (civil disobedience). Thoreau is so revered in India that when Walden Pond was going to be developed into an amusement park they raised funds to buy the land and turn it into a state park. (Damn foreigners interfering with American business rights to destroy everything). Violent action is one of the weapons of Anarchists quote: It is also closer linked to Libertarian than progressive "weapons"
Libertarian education and freethought, See also: Anarchism and education and Freethought Meanwhile the anarchist group involved in these protests -- the ones that spraypaint the red anarchist "A" symbol are members of Black Bloc quote: So you might have to be stupid, ignorant, insane or wicked ... or badly myopic ... to lump the violence of anarchists with the peaceful protesters ... just because main stream and right wing media tells you to. and ignorance is not a crime, unless it is not a temporary condition. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
"Oh, the KKK said they supported some of Trump's ideas? Wow, that Trump guy is a terrible person.
Oh, a black bloc is supporting a progressive protest? Nah, not related, nothing to see here."
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