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Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Yes. There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them. I used to believe in the tooth fairy only to be able to extort money out of her. Do you ignore the Loch Ness monster? Leprechauns? The Tooth Fairy?
Answer your own question: Is the lack of evidence for them any reason to not believe in them? No. lack of evidence plays a small role. I'm trying to figure you out, though. Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus? What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God? God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.
bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe. You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters. People think long and hard about giving their life....
Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief. My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence. Subjective evidence counts also. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.
You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense. Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I actually like this post. From now on I will deal with you as a member rather than a moderator. My two requests are that you stop linking your website to your posts and that you treat other members (yes some are evolutionists) with respect.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: I would prefer that God created the possibility of evil---actualized by a fallen angel...rather than incorporating the attributes of evil directly into a part of God. It is the way that I choose to believe. Having evil as an intrinsic part of Gods nature makes Him no better than us. Jesus supposedly represented Gods human character and I see little evidence that Jesus had evil inclinations, apart from the temper tantrum in His Fathers House(!) which He had every right to do. You seem to be squeamish about the reality of your God. He "must" be good; He "can't" be evil or have anything to do with evil. Yet He's supposedly the Creator of "all seen and unseen". By your math, evil isn't part of "all seen and unseen". Huh?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You misunderstand me. I am referring to the attributes of God...not humanity.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Either God created evil or He didn't create everything. Whether He does something "directly" or not is irrelevant. He pulled the trigger so you can't blame the bullet. You also dont understand. I would say he didnt create everything in that He did not foreknow our decisions. He may have created the gun but it is we who decide whether to pull the trigger...or in your case even acknowledge that He made the gun yet is necessary.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The problem is that if you remove the omnipotent nature of God you, in essence, become God yourself by having the power to remove or imagine or create anything.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The worms may argue that they received a bad rap.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You're missing the point of the analogy. If He created the evil, He's responsible for the consequences. And if He never created evil, satan never would have had the opportunity for his own franchise.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
There is just no winning with you...is there?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Although to be fair, science is not part of the meaning of the Trinity. Some things cannot be proven or disproven through evidence alone.
To me its all a no-brainer. There is One God. period. His presence is experienced through the Holy Spirit. His character comes through Jesus Christ. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stile writes: If "Free Will" means 'ability to hurt other people' then yeah... I don't think you can remove evil and have evil at the same time. But: If "Free Will" means something more like "ability to be the authority on choosing whatever you want from the available options..." Then it opens up a bit more of a discussion on what the "limits" actually are, and which ones may be acceptable or not (that seems off-topic here, though). I see where Mr.Stile has resurrected an old topic from the dusty bins of the Science Forums. Stile in 2009 writes: I was wondering if you could help explain something to me. I am not versed at all in psychology, or sociology. Basically, my thoughts are along the lines of "since I freely choose simple things, why am I unable to freely choose larger things?" I understand how things like environment and genes work together to shape us, and how certain things may not be in our control. But what about those things that are in our control? I mean, simply, I think I have "free-choice" to wear white socks or black socks each day. Or free-choice to snap my fingers 4 times or maybe stop at 5 times just because I want to. How can you say such things are not evidence of us having free-choice?Can you actually link environmental/genetic factors into my sock-colour choice? Or such factors into my "stopping to snap my fingers" choice? What about when we come to an age where we can choose our environment (friends, living location, career...)? If our environment has control over us, be we choose our environment... doesn't that mean we end up with control over us again? How is that not "free-choice"? Maybe my lack of education in this area is making me miss something basic. But, well, my ability of free-choice seems rather obvious to me. Where do you think this is wrong? Tangle, 2017 version writes: Obviously - well to me at least - this is a totally specious argument because we are simply another organism competing to survive - competing against each other as well as our environment so harm is inbuilt by biology. Evolution completely explains why we ae the way we are. Freewill is a purely religious concept so you have to ask, why couldn't god have created a world without harm? Of course the answer is that he did but the Fall did for all that. To introduce the concept of evil, God had to also introduce the evil itself in the form of a talking snake representing a previously fallen angel. It's a very, very strange and silly idea isn't it? Perhaps there is science behind the freedom. Try discussing this over at Free will but how free really?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
Some things cannot be proven or disproven through evidence alone.ringo writes: Without evidence, they can not be "proven" at all. Must a belief be provable before you embrace it? What possible reasons would you have for rejecting it? Perhaps you came from a family of believers who made no sense. Perhaps they used the belief as a crutch to avoid critical thought regarding daily reality. Perhaps one day you discovered matthew 25 and a new calling was born. After all, we all do seem to enjoy our conversations. Perhaps if there is such a thing as The Holy Spirit He too is in communion with us as we attempt to be intelligent about our evolving beliefs.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: I believe that He allowed the world without necessary harm. Evil is not a default option thanks to Jesus. Freewill is a purely religious concept so you have to ask, why couldn't God have created the world without harm? Science may disagree, but in a faith & belief context, can you argue the point? You have stated before that the religious terrorism simply must go and that it is our duty to freely reject unevidenced and archaic belief systems. The Trinity is simply a concept that has a Creator of all seen and unseen eternally omnipresent. Even if we taught people to reject this concept, how would rejection of the necessity of a Holy Presence actually help people to deal with their own volatile emotions? Shrinks cost more money than tithes at church.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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