Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 123 (8733 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 02-26-2017 11:22 PM
458 online now:
Coyote, DrJones*, Percy (Admin), Pressie, Theodoric (5 members, 453 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: timtak
Post Volume:
Total: 799,488 Year: 4,094/21,208 Month: 2,489/1,605 Week: 126/563 Day: 126/27 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
67
8
91011Next
Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7238
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 106 of 164 (799604)
02-11-2017 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
02-11-2017 5:22 PM


Re: The Soros Connection
We're talking about events over the last few months, jar. I think the Nazi collaborator angle is behind us - even Faith has stepped back from it somewhat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 02-11-2017 5:22 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7238
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 107 of 164 (799607)
02-11-2017 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Modulous
02-05-2017 11:28 AM


more legal response to violence at protests
Allen Scarsella, who was masked up, shot 5 black lives matter protesters at a protest in 2015, was recently found guilty.

Michael Strickland, a videographer for 'LaughingAtLiberals' was found guilty on "10 counts of unlawful use of a weapon, 10 counts of menacing and one count of second-degree disorderly conduct" after waving a loaded gun at a crowd of Black Lives Matter protesters. He was carrying over 100 bullets for his Glock semi-automatic handgun.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2017 11:28 AM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7238
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 108 of 164 (800195)
02-20-2017 6:15 PM


Conservatives are now suppressing Milo's free speech?
Milo's comments
quote:
The law is probably about right, that's probably roughly the right age but there are certainly people who are capable of giving consent at a younger age. I certainly consider myself to be one of them. People are sexually active younger. I think it particularly happens in the gay world by the way. In many cases, actually, those relationships with older - this is one of the reasons why I hate the left - with this stupid one size fits all policing of culture - this arbitrary and oppressive idea of consent which totally destroys the understanding many of us have of the complexities and subtleties and complicated nature of many relationships. People are messy and complex; in the homosexual world particularly. Some of those relationships between younger boys and older men - the sort of 'coming of age' relationships - those relationships where those older men help those young boys discover who they are and give them security and safety and provide them with love and a reliable rock - where they can't speak to their parents. Some of those relationships are the most {interrupted by heckling about Catholic priests} - I'm grateful to father Michael I wouldn't give nearly as good head if it wasn't for him {interrupted by challenge}

You're misunderstanding what paedophilia means. Paedophilia is not a sexual attraction to someone, 13 years old, who is sexually mature. Paedophilia is the attraction to children who have not reached puberty...who don't have functioning sex organs yet who have not gone through puberty who are too young to understand the way their body functions. That is not what we're talking about. You don't know what paedophilia is if you think I'm defending it. {interruption}

I don't mind admitting that {I'm advocating cross-generational relationships}, particularly in the gay world and outside the Catholic church if that's where some of you want to go with this. I think in the gay world some of the most important, enriching and incredibly life-affirming and important shaping relationships are very often between younger boys and older men. They can be hugely positive experiences for those young boys. They can even save those young boys from desolation, from suicide - provided they are consensual.


Matt Schlapp, the head of the American Conservative Union:

quote:
We continue to believe that CPAC is a constructive forum for controversies and disagreements among conservatives, however there is no disagreement among our attendees on the evils of sexual abuse of children

Ned Ryun board member of American Conservative Union:

quote:
While I'm all for free speech, there is such a thing as vile, hateful speech that does not deserve a platform

Rich Lowry, editor at the National Review

quote:
a colossal misjudgment to invite him...He's not a conservative, and in fact wants to overthrow Reagan conservatism, besides his other obvious failings...Now having disinvited him, CPAC looks like the censor--the worst of both worlds.

When a man gets disinvited from a national conservative speaking appointment after extolling the virtues of buggering 13 year olds...its political correctness gone mad, I say! I wonder if Trump will comment on this issue?

https://twitter.com/...anBattalion/status/833485040944156673

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2017 6:20 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18154
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 109 of 164 (800196)
02-20-2017 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Modulous
02-20-2017 6:15 PM


Re: Conservatives are now suppressing Milo's free speech?
That's not all

quote:
Breitbart employees threaten exit over Yiannopoulos

Employees at Breitbart News are reportedly prepared to leave the company if controversial senior editor Milo Yiannopoulos is not fired.

Another senior editor at the publication told Washingtonian Monday that "at least a half dozen" employees are prepared to leave to organization because of remarks Yiannopoulos made about pedophilia that gained attention this weekend.

“The fact of the matter is that there’s been so many things that have been objectionable about Milo over the last couple of years, quite frankly. This is something far more sinister,” the senior editor said.

“If the company isn’t willing to act, there are at least half a dozen people who are willing to walk out over it.”


Even nutty right wing conspiracy folk think he's too far out there.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Modulous, posted 02-20-2017 6:15 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 110 of 164 (800198)
02-20-2017 7:35 PM


I'm just here to giggle. Just passin' through.
  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3458
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 111 of 164 (800209)
02-20-2017 9:32 PM


On The Media - How To Counter Milo's Trolling Playbook
Yes, I'm posting this here and have previously posted same message at the "Fake polls, fake news" topic. I was intending the message for this topic, but it also became equally relevant at the other topic.

-----

The index page for the entire hour:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/on-the-media-2017-02-10/

The ending 10 minute segment:
http://www.wnyc.org/...y/how-counter-milos-trolling-playbook

There is an audio link, a text summary, and a complete text transcript available via the second above link.

The summary:

quote:
Ryan Holiday literally wrote the book on how to generate attention by stoking controversy -- it's called Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator. And now, Holiday says he recognizes those tactics being used by Milo Yiannopoulos, the alt-right icon and blogger who has been courting protest and outrage on a college tour (and with a book deal).

Most recently, Yiannopoulos's speaking engagement at the University of California Berkeley led to massive protests, and his speech was cancelled. Holiday says the protests and outrage are exactly what Yiannopoulos wants, and he talks with Bob about how to effectively respond to speech intended to provoke.

Holiday's column for The Observer this week is called "I Helped Create the Milo Trolling Playbook. You Should Stop Playing Right Into It".


The main points I remember from listening a couple of weeks ago:

The best thing for the protesters to do, would have been to totally ignore him.

News coverage will focus in on the bad. They cite two examples:

1) A large peaceful gathering (such as the incident in question) where one or a few do destruction.

2) A large Tea Party gathering where one or a few are carrying racist or otherwise stupid signs.

Ryan Holiday also comments on where, in the past, he personally did an act of vandalism to make a peaceful crowd look bad. I think it is a real possibility that the destructive acts in question might have been done by Milo supporters.

Feel free to listen yourself, or read the transcript(s) of one or more segment of the hour.

Moose


Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Rrhain, posted 02-24-2017 5:54 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 112 of 164 (800309)
02-21-2017 8:52 PM


What happened to Faith?

Maybe she finally found a group of people she cared about --- 'cos pedophilia can hurt straight white males.


  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23452
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 113 of 164 (800310)
02-21-2017 9:00 PM


I may have been a victim of fake news against Yiannopolous. I don't know yet.
Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2017 11:11 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 116 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2017 7:58 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 117 by Theodoric, posted 02-22-2017 9:36 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3737
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 114 of 164 (800311)
02-21-2017 9:01 PM


Is this really called for?
Don't reply.

Adminnemooseus

Added by edit - This is a reply to message 112. I seemed to have not selected the "reply to" button.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : ABE


Or something like that©.

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 115 of 164 (800312)
02-21-2017 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
02-21-2017 9:00 PM


I may have been a victim of fake news against Yiannopolous. I don't know yet.

Hahahahahahaha. Hahaha, heeheeheeheehee.

---

If any moderator wishes to know whether this is "really called for", it is not. But it is as funny as fuck, which, like being "really called for" is not mentioned anywhere in the rules of this forum. There is literally nothing there either about being "really called for" nor about malicious gloating. I checked.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 9:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18154
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 116 of 164 (800325)
02-22-2017 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
02-21-2017 9:00 PM


these are a few of the things I deny most ...
I may have been a victim of fake news ...

Surreal. As I've said before Faith, the more one needs to deny things the less real one's world view becomes. Not just in science but politics and news. This is how I judge my opinions. There are things I do deny and some that I would like to deny but which would be pointless (like Trump being president).

Now I don't deny that fake news exists -- the Bowling Green Massacre and the Swedish 'Night of Terror' being examples.

The largest category of fake news is propaganda -- statements that tread lightly on the line of reality and gaslight us to cross over to a surreal world view. The Trump pogrom on the news (enemy of the people) is an example: if he can get us to distrust all news regardless of source or accuracy then that leaves us more vulnerable to further gaslighting

quote:
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or members of a group, hoping to make targets question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.[1][2]

Ingrid Bergman in the 1944 film Gaslight

Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The term owes its origin to Gas Light, a 1938 play and 1944 film. It has been used in clinical and research literature.[3][4]


" ... it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief." -- I think we can all agree that there is a lot of this going around, in speeches and in news stories.

Our job as American citizens is to sort through this barrage of (information + misinformation) to find validity.

There was no Bowling Green Massacre and there was no Swedish 'Night of Terror' ...

... fake news against Yiannopolous. I don't know yet.

Curiously I consider Yiannopolous to be fake news, I find it hard to believe the media persona shown is real, that it is not an act, that his purpose is to outrage you, gradually gaslighting you along, going further and further into a bizarre - surreal - world.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 9:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5631
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 117 of 164 (800330)
02-22-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
02-21-2017 9:00 PM


So are you saying that the interview in which he extolls the virtues of pedophilia is faked? Or is the some deeper more malevolent conspiracy theory forming?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 9:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23452
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 118 of 164 (800348)
02-22-2017 1:38 PM


Yiannopolous redeemed himself
After watching some of the press conference given by Yiannopolous I understand that he didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia, which is what he originally seemed to be doing. So it's not fake news (except perhaps some versions that left out important parts) and he's now corrected his first impression quite believably in my opinion, taking most of the blame for it himself, on his style of gay British sarcasm.

Press conference here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRL91-tSXlY

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 2:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 120 by Theodoric, posted 02-22-2017 2:47 PM Faith has responded
 Message 122 by Modulous, posted 02-22-2017 3:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 119 of 164 (800365)
02-22-2017 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:38 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
After watching some of the press conference given by Yiannopolous I understand that he didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia,

"didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia?"

Did you read or hear Milo's own apology on the subject? He admits that his past abuse as a young child left him confused and in denial about whether such activities were abuse. At the time he made the statements apparently he did actually believe them. Now he recognizes that the abuse harmed him and produced self-destructive behavior. So yeah, he did actually mean to validate man-boy sex in at least some contexts and now regrets having done so. Given that, what does "didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia?" mean?

Milo says now that he has sorted out the fact that he was victimized although he denies having been a victim. I think it is entirely possible that after doing some healing he now knows better.

There are some insincere things in his apology, as before it is over he starts blaming folks for reporting his past words. Milo does not agree with everything the press said about him, although he was unclear about what they got wrong. Mostly he is questioning the motives of someone for posting his words, but to my mind that kind of blame deflecting is asinine.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5631
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 120 of 164 (800370)
02-22-2017 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:38 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
he didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia

Did you watch the original interview? Yeah he did.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:23 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Prev1
...
67
8
91011Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017