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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1 of 710 (799879)
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


ABE: Added a bunch of stuff. Sorry. I see this got answered while I was working on that.
======================================
From NoNukes on the Presidency thread:
Despite the fact that Trump's approval ratings are in the toilet. Every poll I have seen suggests that 90% of Trump voters feel the opposite of the way that I and most posters here feel about Trump's performance to date.
That ratings are in the toilet is a lie. Fake news, fake polls, just as they did during the election campaigns, which is why it was such a shock to the left that Hillary lost. They are continuing with the same old game to try to make it look like Trump has lost favor. Twitter has been manipulated too so that only the negative responses to his tweets show up. You guys have no idea just how sneaky rotten your team is.
Oh and those rowdy Townhall meetings? Planted by... OBAMA. Yep, he's not leaving Washington, he's planning to undermine Trump with everything Soros will fund him to do.
The rest is true. Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.
abe: While I'm at it I might as well respond to this one (#404) from Phat on that thread as well:
Washington Post writes:
Trump attacked the news media again, railing that the fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred.
What he said is very true. And of course they have to complain as if it weren't true.
He also blasted the intelligence services, claiming that they are illegally giving information to the media, which, he opined, is just like Russia.
Sure, he's been getting lied about trying to somehow smear him with some kind of collusion with Russia. People are even saying he should be assassinated, implying he's a Russian spy? Is anyone here paying attention or do you just so dislike him -- thanks to the fake news -- that you'd be fine if they killed him? After setting him up with lies? Presidents do talk to heads of foreign states. Hillary talked secretly to Putin twice. Did you know that? Do you care? But if Trump as President does, in his rightful role of trying to keep things congenial with Russia, that is spun to make him a Russian sympathizer or collaborator? You don't even know you're being spun. They've even been trying to resurrect that dead "dossier." The more fake hints they can publicly float the more they make gullible people think there must be something to it when it's all nothing but propaganda.
This has become a pattern, in which Trump deals with setbacks by lashing out at other institutions, including ones that can function as a check on his power.
The "setbacks" are fake news. "Lashing out?" Note the language the fake news people like to use. No, he is rightly ANSWERING them in an effort to keep them from gelling in the public mind. The court action against his immigration ban was NOT a legitimate check on his power. It may need some adjusting, but I'm not even totally sure about that; in fact he was completely within the legitimate power of the Presdency and the court was acting illegitimately. The check is needed on THEIR power.
I'm trying here to unspin the spin, but I know I'm up against a wall of brainwashing.
When the courts blocked his immigration ban, he blasted both the courts and the news media for making us less safe,
HE WAS RIGHT to do that. They were in the wrong.
in what seemed to be designed to lay the groundwork to blame them for a future terrorist attack, a move that even some Republicans criticized for its authoritarian tendencies. This appeared to be a test run of sorts, in which Trump was experimenting with how far he could go in delegitimizing the institutions that might act as a check on his power later.
What a mess of insinuating gobbledygook. He STRAIGHTFORWARDLY and RIGHTLY objected that the court's action could allow a terrorist attack, and they WOULD be responsible for that.
How authoritarian is Donald Trump?
Nowhere near the tyranny of the Left, and in that case it should be called totalitarian. Trump really truly does want people to have liberty, freedom; the Left wants us all to dance to their tune, toe their line ... or else.
How far will he go before his own party attempts to check him?
He hasn't done one thing that SHOULD be checked. But his "party" has a lot of people trying to sabotage him so of course they are doing whatever they can to check his perfectly legitimate moves. His support is from the people, not the party.
Is he a dangerous leader for America at this time in history?
He's the best thing that has happened to America in a long long time. He's got quirks and makes mistakes, but his heart is in the right place, he really wants to serve America as a good President, good. Good. I don't think anybody knows what the word "good" means any more. Prosperity, security, freedom. Does anybody know what those things mean any more?
When will the angry people who elected him get a clue that it is them and not others who are the problem?
I'm not angry. Maybe I should be. Some are angry against the sheer evil we are having to deal with, that you just don't get, Phat. Or most others here. I'm not angry, I just cry a lot these days.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 3 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 9:26 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 4 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 9:42 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Faith has replied
 Message 10 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 10:38 AM Faith has replied
 Message 36 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-17-2017 8:44 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 5 of 710 (799883)
02-17-2017 9:58 AM


I should have realized this was going to get pounced on before I got the whole thing written. Anyway I added more to the OP while answers were accumulating. Sorry about that.
==================================
Rasmussen seems to get it right where the others get it wrong.
I only saw parts of the press conference. I keep meaning to try to watch the whole thing. First impression is he's trying to deal with a crowd of people who treat him with disrespect, work with every breath to undermine anything he says, and he does pretty well under such circumstances. They never treated Obama that way you know, nowhere near it.
I don't know how he got the electoral college number wrong. Maybe he meant his number was better than Republicans since Reagan. I don't know. Maybe we'll find out. I still believe there was massive voter fraud myself, there's a ton of very suggestive facts in that direction; I hope eventually somebody will demonstrate it beyond a doubt.
No lies that I know of.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 9 of 710 (799889)
02-17-2017 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-17-2017 10:07 AM


Your NoNukes quote from his Message 409 was only referring to the Trump approval ratings of 45%. I agree with you that that doesn't qualify as being "in the toilet", but it *is* the lowest of any modern president in the first month
The 45% is the fake news. We on Trump's side knew it even if the rest of you bought it.
Trump hasn't lost favor among his base, and the media reports this continually, including after yesterday's press conference. Did that press conference seem normal to you? Have you ever seen a president act like Trump did yesterday? Wouldn't you expect people in general to respond negatively to this president's inability to begin hitting anything like a presidential stride.
What IS unprecedented is the media's attitude. Did you ever see any of them ask such disrespectful questions of Obama? Did they ever question his credibility when he lied about how people could keep their own doctors and wouldn't have to pay more with Obamacare? But they question Trump's credibility on everything. I think he's doing as well as anyone could with such a hostile media.
I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources. Also about the infiltration of the Townhall meetings. But in my opinion anyone who is half conscious ought to know such things are rigged because we know he's very popular.
You don't need to "hack" Twitter. The people who run Twitter only have to set the program to put the negative responses at the top. Google does the same kind of thing. It's not that hard to bury the views they dislike and bring their favored views to Page One.
Yes, I forget that there are people watching and waiting to pounce and went ahead and added a response to another post from the Presidency thread. Sorry about that. I can move that part to another post but that might just add to the confusion.

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 Message 17 by caffeine, posted 02-17-2017 1:41 PM Faith has replied
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 1:44 PM Faith has replied
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 2:42 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 11 of 710 (799891)
02-17-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
02-17-2017 10:38 AM


Re: jar's spin
But it is a fact that his well oiled machine seems incapable of actually doing anything despite having full control of both Houses of Congress.
He's got so many people sabotaging and undermining him, even within his own camp, it's amazing how much he actually HAS got done, a lot more than most Presidents this early in their Presidency.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 15 of 710 (799897)
02-17-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ooh-child
02-17-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
I have to guess that you and others here just about never bother to read or listen to the conservative media -- though I don't even know if it's right to call it "conservative" or "right." "Alt-right" doesn't describe what many of them think of themselves. They are conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals in their own opinion, unified by their general support of Trump's agenda. Most of it is opinion just as most here is opinion on the other side. Asking for evidence is often not relevant because the same event we all know about well enough attracts radically opposing views.
Do you check with
Drudge Report
Breitbart
Newsmax
World Net Daily
Infowars
Frontpage Mag
That's some on the internet. There's also conservative radio. Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Mark Levin, Laura Ingraham etc etc etc.
They aren't just echoes of each other either; you'll get a whole range of opinion from them.
Oh lots more. The stuff you all just dismiss, that gets called "fake news" by the REAL fake news.
There ARE conspiracies out there. Why is that so hard to accept? It's not that hard to organize a conspiracy if you have a mind to and a source of funding, and there are plenty who have both.
Who are you listening to?
Here's an article in the New York Post about Obama's organized opposition to Trump, from a "bunker" not far from the White House. Not a conspiracy?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 23 of 710 (799909)
02-17-2017 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
02-17-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
You've read the Drudge Report "before?"
What's needed is regularly checking out such sites as an antidote to Leftist propaganda.
I'm a Christian, I know Satan is real and that there are people into witchcraft -- there are lots of levels of witchcraft and I've unfortunately had some experience of it myself -- so if someone says Lady Gaga is, or Hillary etc., I know it's possible and I don't dismiss it. I also didn't watch the halftime show to see if I recognize it in the act, so I don't know for sure.
But that's SUCH a small part of Infowars' reports, you pick on that and dismiss the whole show? Typical.
Yes, there are huge conspiracy theories too. Lots of people with lots of money working together. Did you ever listen to the Norman Dodd interview at YouTube on the conspiracy by the big foundations to teach Communism to Americans, that I've mentioned a number of times?
It doesn't take all that security you mention though; all it takes is ridiculing the idea of conspiracies to the point that people like you won't take them seriously.
None of that is what I have in mind in this thread though. Infowars focuses on NEWS STORIES found in a huge variety of sources, NEWS stories; they don't make it up, they take their stuff from the published accounts of the MSM among others. They also have a bunch of good reporters who discuss the news and never mention conspiracies and witchcraft, and a lot of guests with political expertise.
What's even rarer than conspiracies is a delusional mindset. You guys sling that around to explain anything you've been brainwashed into dismissing.
You really need to check in frequently with the sources I listed if you want to understand how Trump supporters think. If you don't like Infowars pick some of the others. Remember, I brought this up because ooh-child accused me of being a troll who is misrepresenting the "alt right," and laughing about it. I know what they think and I agree with the MAIN stuff they say -- I don't agree with EVERYTHING anybody says. And I meant it when I said this stuff makes me cry a lot. What the LEFT says makes me cry every day.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 24 of 710 (799910)
02-17-2017 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by caffeine
02-17-2017 1:41 PM


A lot of people in my circle are liberals and leftists too, but that's because they live in blue parts of California. I know Trump supporters but they aren't the closest people in my life, so I have to find my "friends" on the internet and other public sources.
I'm not arguing from my own personal circle of family and friends, I'm arguing from what I see in those public venues, the HUGE support for Trump. Sure it's "plausible" that Trump supporters are in the minority but I know from the election that they aren't. When I see a poll that puts his popularity below 50% I know it's fake. Yes, I just know it. The same way you believe the lower percentages I believe they're fake. You can't prove it, you have to resort to the convoluted reasoning in your post that amounts to nothing. No evidence, no facts. We're both trusting in our intuition.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 25 of 710 (799911)
02-17-2017 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NoNukes
02-17-2017 1:44 PM


Funny how people here who demand evidence from me can just go on and on about my "[in]ability to separate the chaff from the wheat" as if that were an objective judgment rather than your jaundiced opinion.
Go fly a kite.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 710 (799912)
02-17-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
02-17-2017 2:42 PM


The 45% is the fake news. We on Trump's side knew it even if the rest of you bought it.
And you know this how?
Exactly the same way YOU "know" it's 45% or less. You trust those sources, I don't trust them. Intuition, personal judgment, who we find believable. You have no evidence, so don't ask me for evidence.
As I said, I agree with you that Trump's approval ratings are not "in the toilet."
So you did. I disagree. I consider 45% ridiculously fake.
Whether someone wants to call an average 45% approval rating good or bad is a personal choice, but you can't argue with the number. It's a fact.
Ha ha. Just as I said. After all the polls saying Hillary was going to win even as Trump racked up the electoral votes on election night, you still believe what the MSM says is "fact?" The MSM has NO credibility with me. The way they spin stories about Trump is so obviously disgustingly biased and you all just eat it up. It's so blatant I am amazed that even liberals swallow it uncritically. No, Trump is right to call them out in his press conferences. They ARE the enemy. Oh yes there is a big conspiracy out there to defeat Trump no matter what they have to resort to, and the media are the major part of it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 28 of 710 (799916)
02-17-2017 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Diomedes
02-17-2017 5:50 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
There is no 'leftist propaganda'. There is only the dissemination of information.
Well, there you have it, sheer fantasy declared to be fact. Whoee.
Witchcraft is a version of Satanism. I've experienced demonic activity. Saul Alinsky dedicated a book to Lucifer. You think that's a joke? I wish it was.
And I am curious: do you watch MSNBC on a regular basis to ensure you are receiving an effective 'antidote' to right wing propaganda?
Oh brother. How does one AVOID MSNBC or any of the leftist media? Google anything you get a liberal source. Yes I follow lots of those headlines. Yes I get PLENTY of leftist input. And I hang out at EvC for pete's sake.
You would dismiss Norman Dodd's testimony as similar to conspiracies about the moon landing? You are NOT worth talking to. Your opinions are worth nothing, and your advice to me is beyond insulting. There is so much in this world to cry about if you don't cry there's something very wrong with you.
Go fly kites with NN.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 29 of 710 (799917)
02-17-2017 6:48 PM


Fake news about lawsuits
I can't post on the Trump Presidency thread but sometimes something has to be answered, fake news of course:
jar writes:
Trump named in over fifty lawsuits so far
So far Donald Trump has been named in over 50 Federal case lawsuits in 17 States between being sworn in on January 20th and February 1st.
For Obama the number was 3 while Bill Clinton and G.W. Bush were named in 4.
That is a HUGE number.
Tremendous evidence of how hard the Enemy is working to bring him down.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 31 of 710 (799919)
02-17-2017 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Modulous
02-17-2017 6:57 PM


delusion
I was going to take that back anyway, because it certainly describes a lot of people at EvC.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 37 of 710 (799925)
02-17-2017 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Hyroglyphx
02-17-2017 8:44 PM


Well that was a lot of hot air amounting to nothing.
The fact is there is INTENTIONAL skewing of the news on the Left against Trump, very carefully intentionally skewed, intentional lies. This has been the case in the MSM for oh something like a couple of decades now at least, but they're really going overboard against Trump.
Oh, and don't overestimate the effect of Trump's personality. What his supporters really like is his taking a strong clear conservative stand and being willing to defend it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 38 of 710 (799926)
02-17-2017 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Porosity
02-17-2017 8:38 PM


Re: Tin Foil Alert!
Ha ha ha, you'll accept a list of opinions by some self-appointed website? Why?
There are very benign objective-sounding websites out there that are put up by propaganda sources.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 40 of 710 (799929)
02-17-2017 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Theodoric
02-17-2017 8:14 PM


Re: jar's spin
Just one?
Getting rid of TPP.

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