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Author Topic:   Questions based on a plain and simple reading of the US Constitution
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 16 of 169 (800061)
02-19-2017 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by marc9000
02-19-2017 4:38 PM


So short a post, so many issues. Moving goal posts, strawman arguments. Utter dishonesty in debating.
How about you try addressing what I actually said not what you invented.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 4:38 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(5)
Message 17 of 169 (800067)
02-19-2017 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by marc9000
02-19-2017 4:35 PM


marc, you are completely misrepresenting what is being said about the constitutional rights of non-citizens. The Constitution is quite clear that ALL persons within the jurisdiction of the United States have the Constitutional right to due-process, to not be subject to illegal search and seizures, and to all protections that the Constitution provides for the dignity and justice that is deserving of all human beings.
No one is saying that illegal aliens should enjoy ALL the privileges that citizens do, only those that have been extended by the Constitution - those related to "all men are created equal" and "equal protection under the law" and the rule of law in general. The United States is based on the rule of law, and the rule of law applies to ALL persons within the jurisdiction of our country.
A person, by virtue of being within the jurisdiction of the United States, is subject to the obligations of the Constitution and should therefore also be afforded its protection. This doesn't mean that people who are here illegally have a constitutional right to be here illegally. It means that by being here they have subjected themselves to our laws (including our laws related to immigration) but that they also deserve to be treated with dignity and respect and that the enforcement of our laws, even in regard to the illegal alien, should also follow the rule of law.
Your trying to make it that people are saying that all people everywhere have Constitutional rights and that, for example, we should enforce the 2nd amendment on all people of all nations is just absurd.
it's time to re-think all the money and attention we lavish on illegal immigrants as we bend over backwards to grant them all U.S. constitutional guarantees.
All this rhetoric about "make America great again" makes me wonder what period in our history are they referring to; during what period in our history were we "great" that we wish we could get back to?
How about...
quote:
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
THIS is the greatness of America! During the period between 1880 and 1920, 20 million immigrants entered the U.S.! Was that wave of immigration "great" because it was mostly white Europeans that were immigrating? Why now do people think we should close our borders to the tired, the poor, the huddled masses who are yearning to breathe free? Just because they are not white Europeans who are the tired, poor and yearning to be free? That attitude is not great by any measure.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 4:35 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 19 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 6:45 PM herebedragons has replied
 Message 24 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 8:14 PM herebedragons has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 169 (800068)
02-19-2017 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by herebedragons
02-19-2017 5:40 PM


Two Coasts
hbd writes:
THIS is the greatness of America! During the period between 1880 and 1920, 20 million immigrants entered the U.S.! Was that wave of immigration "great" because it was mostly white Europeans that were immigrating?
We also tend to forget that the European immigration was an East Coast phenomenon while on the West Coast it was mostly Asians and Mexicans (many who had been there before it was the US) that were building and flavoring the Nation.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 19 of 169 (800069)
02-19-2017 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by herebedragons
02-19-2017 5:40 PM


Perhaps you missed Message 6 where Theodoric flatly denied what marc said about the Constitution's being written for citizens. Implying the whole thing applies to noncitizens as well.
"Great" means powerful, respected, prosperous, well-defended and populated by a majority of good people who love the country instead of creeps who try to destroy it when they don't get their way. And the racist slur in your argument is disgusting. Who cares what races come here? Only the racist Left who hate the white race.
And nobody is denying people within the borders of the US standard human rights and protections. Or outside the borders either for that matter.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 5:40 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 7:30 PM Faith has replied
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 02-19-2017 11:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(2)
Message 20 of 169 (800075)
02-19-2017 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
02-19-2017 6:45 PM


Perhaps you missed Message 6 where Theodoric flatly denied what marc said about the Constitution's being written for citizens. Implying the whole thing applies to noncitizens as well.
You are apparently having a little trouble with reading comprehension.
And the racist slur in your argument is disgusting.
I did not make a racist slur... I insinuated that when immigration is predominately white, it's good but when it's heavily Muslim or Mexican, it's bad. The rhetoric is that we need to protect ourselves from these "bad hombres" that are coming here to rape, steal, kill and change our sacred way of life.
Only the racist Left who hate the white race.
She who is without sin...
The fact is that many people hated the immigrants that came here at the turn of the century. It was a result of the same kinds of rhetoric and fear.
"Great" means powerful, respected, prosperous, well-defended and populated by a majority of good people who love the country
Our policy of being a nation of opportunity for ALL people regardless of their race or national origin is what has made us great. Our determination to be a nation that is governed by the rule of law, not the tyrannical authority of an individual or a group of individuals is what has made us great. And it is because of that: ALL people within the jurisdiction of the United States are not only under the authority of the rule of law but also shares in its protection as well. I don't understand why you can't understand this. It is based on a plain, simple reading of the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions from over 100 years ago.
What period in our history do you think we were "great"? And that is a serious question. What period in time do you wish we could return to?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 6:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 11:17 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 21 of 169 (800078)
02-19-2017 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by PaulK
02-19-2017 4:53 PM


People in the U.S. would include non-citizens in the U.S. Why would it be odd for the Amendment to cover them, the houses they rent or own, or their papers or effects ?
Because every house they own or rent, every paper and effect having anything to do with them, would be illegal because their presence in the U.S. is illegal.
If a person breaks into a store and steals one thing and doesn't get caught, does that mean from then on that it's perfectly legal for him to steal anything he wants in that store?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 02-19-2017 4:53 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 7:48 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 23 by jar, posted 02-19-2017 7:50 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 02-19-2017 11:59 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 22 of 169 (800079)
02-19-2017 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by marc9000
02-19-2017 7:44 PM


Because every house they own or rent, every paper and effect having anything to do with them, would be illegal because their presence in the U.S. is illegal.
So, marc... would it then be acceptable for you to take their things or destroy their property or even attack or kill them personally since everything having to do with them is illegal and they are not protected by the Constitution?
Why or why not?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 7:44 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 8:18 PM herebedragons has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 169 (800080)
02-19-2017 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by marc9000
02-19-2017 7:44 PM


Are you as clueless as Trump?
marc writes:
Because every house they own or rent, every paper and effect having anything to do with them, would be illegal because their presence in the U.S. is illegal.
Too funny.
How the hell can a house or papers be illegal?
Even if they were illegal how would that have anything to do with the persons rights as granted under the US Constitution?
No wonder the reaction in the Federal Courts to Trumps Executive Orders has been "You did NOT really issue that, did you?"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 7:44 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 24 of 169 (800083)
02-19-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by herebedragons
02-19-2017 5:40 PM


marc, you are completely misrepresenting what is being said about the constitutional rights of non-citizens. The Constitution is quite clear that ALL persons within the jurisdiction of the United States have the Constitutional right to due-process, to not be subject to illegal search and seizures, and to all protections that the Constitution provides for the dignity and justice that is deserving of all human beings.
"all persons within the jurisdiction" - where do you find those words? I don't think the founders were even giving any thought to people who broke U.S. immigration laws to get here, the world was far less populated then. They didn't mention it because it went without saying that they were referring only to people legally here.
No one is saying that illegal aliens should enjoy ALL the privileges that citizens do, only those that have been extended by the Constitution - those related to "all men are created equal" and "equal protection under the law" and the rule of law in general. The United States is based on the rule of law, and the rule of law applies to ALL persons within the jurisdiction of our country.
They didn't even apply it to black people in those days, they sure wouldn't have thought so for foreigners who BROKE THE LAW in getting here.
Your trying to make it that people are saying that all people everywhere have Constitutional rights and that, for example, we should enforce the 2nd amendment on all people of all nations is just absurd.
It makes it hard to define exactly what's absurd if people illegally entering the U.S. get rewarded for breaking the law.
All this rhetoric about "make America great again" makes me wonder what period in our history are they referring to; during what period in our history were we "great" that we wish we could get back to?
When we as a country were not in debt, when we built an interstate system, when we manufactured things without having to answer to a self-serving EPA, when we were energy independent with our own coal and oil, much more.
How about...
quote:
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
That's not part of the constitution. It wasn't even part of a government proclamation when the statue of Liberty was erected in...1886 I think it was.
quote:
This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.
What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?
It's not quite forgotten now! The left has revived it to suit their revisionist history. Thankfully, it's not yet been renamed the "Statue of Immigration. It's still the statue of liberty, and logically, that would include the liberty of not having to pay tax dollars to prop up illegals who come to this country for free stuff, or to scope out new ideas for terrorist attacks.
THIS is the greatness of America! During the period between 1880 and 1920, 20 million immigrants entered the U.S.! Was that wave of immigration "great" because it was mostly white Europeans that were immigrating?
No because it was a time period when there were no terrorist threats, no free stuff for immigrants, no congestion in cities that didn't have simple solutions, and no national debt.
Why now do people think we should close our borders to the tired, the poor, the huddled masses who are yearning to breathe free? Just because they are not white Europeans who are the tired, poor and yearning to be free?
No, because many of them are not Europeans and don't know or care a thing about the language or culture of the U.S. Because there are still many people who remember what happened on 9-11-01. Or realize what today's technology can do to an entire country in the hands of ONE immigrant. It is a different world than it was 100 years ago. The U.S. is of no use to poor, tired, huddled masses of LEGAL immigrants if it's destroyed by illegal immigration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 5:40 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 9:31 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 25 of 169 (800084)
02-19-2017 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by herebedragons
02-19-2017 7:48 PM


So, marc... would it then be acceptable for you to take their things or destroy their property or even attack or kill them personally since everything having to do with them is illegal and they are not protected by the Constitution?
No it wouldn't be up to individuals except as prescribed by law. It would be be up to our law enforcement, on both the state and federal levels, to reverse everything they did while they were here, including entering the country. There are very humane, yet firm and effective, ways to do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 7:48 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 26 of 169 (800085)
02-19-2017 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by marc9000
02-19-2017 8:18 PM


fair and humane
marc writes:
There are very humane, yet firm and effective, ways to do it.
So an immigrant living in the US since she was brought here at age 14 who is married with two US born children and living and working in the US for 20 years while paying taxes and who is following the procedure she was given by Immigration to report annually showing up for the annual report being arrested and deported, taken from her family, is considered fair and humane?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 8:18 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(3)
Message 27 of 169 (800091)
02-19-2017 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by marc9000
02-19-2017 8:14 PM


"all persons within the jurisdiction" - where do you find those words? I don't think the founders were even giving any thought to people who broke U.S. immigration laws to get here, the world was far less populated then. They didn't mention it because it went without saying that they were referring only to people legally here.
You do know there are amendments to the Constitution right? And they are just as much a part of the Constitution as the original section?
From Message 84
quote:
But "real Constitutional rights" belong ONLY to the citizens of the United States.
14th Ammendment:
quote:
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Source: Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights
Unless you want to try and argue that non-citizens (illegal or legal) are not actually 'persons', then the Constitution is pretty clear that even illegal aliens have the Constitutional right to due process and equal protection under the laws of the United States.
quote:
"Aliens," legal and illegal, have the full panoply of constitutional protections American citizens have with three exceptions: voting, some government jobs and gun ownership
quote:
The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage."

That's not part of the constitution.
Never said it was. I said that attitude, that concept is what has made America great.
When we as a country were not in debt
Uhmm... we have been in debt pretty much since our founding. See History of the United States public debt
when we built an interstate system
So, the 60's and 70's?
when we manufactured things without having to answer to a self-serving EPA
You mean when we wrecked the environment without care of the future. Where would we be today without the Clean Water Act? Manufacturing prior to the 80's was terribly irresponsible. All our natural systems would be destroyed by now if it weren't for the EPA.
when we were energy independent with our own coal and oil
Are you old enough to remember the lines at gas stations in the 70's due to oil the embargoes of OPEC? Domestic production of oil and gas is higher than ever and our dependence on foreign oil is lower than it has been in over 30 years.
It's not quite forgotten now! The left has revived it to suit their revisionist history.
Revisionist history, you say? How so?
No because it was a time period when there were no terrorist threats, no free stuff for immigrants, no congestion in cities that didn't have simple solutions, and no national debt.
Did you not have to take a US history class in high school or what? Cause this list is just not true. Of course, you can call what is written in the history books "revisionist" and replace it with your "true" version.
It's still the statue of liberty, and logically, that would include the liberty of not having to pay tax dollars to prop up illegals who come to this country for free stuff
How much of your tax dollars go to support illegal immigrants? Do you know?
or to scope out new ideas for terrorist attacks.
fear mongering. How many terrorist attacks in the US have been carried out by our own citizens compared to those carried out by foreign nationals? Of course, 9-11 was the worst and overshadows all others, but aside from 9-11, do you know how many have been carried out by US citizens?
For one thing, we tend to identify actions by foreign nationals as "terrorism", but when it is a domestic action, it tends to not get that label and instead called "mass murderer." You are much more at risk of being killed by a "mass murderer" than you are by a "terrorist." This fear of immigrants coming to this country so they can kill us is unfounded and only results in fear and hatred.
Do we need to be vigilant and be careful about who we allow into the country? Yes, definitely. Do we need to cower in fear because the boogie man is coming to get us? No, absolutely not.
The U.S. is of no use to poor, tired, huddled masses of LEGAL immigrants if it's destroyed by illegal immigration.
So, just to be clear... I am not advocating illegal immigration or saying that we should look the other way. But I am saying that the current attitude surrounding immigration is misplaced and does nothing but breed fear and hate.
But the bigger point is... even illegal immigrants within our borders have Constitutional rights.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 8:14 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by marc9000, posted 02-25-2017 11:24 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 28 of 169 (800092)
02-19-2017 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by marc9000
02-19-2017 8:18 PM


No it wouldn't be up to individuals except as prescribed by law. It would be be up to our law enforcement,
But WHY? Why can you not take matters into your own hands since they are here illegally and have (as you believe) no protection under the Constitution? Are they protected by the laws of the country they come from? That wouldn't make sense. So, without protection from the Constitution (as you suggest) they would have no protection what-so-ever. If you believe they are still protected from you personally being able to enact justice upon them, where does that protection come from?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by marc9000, posted 02-19-2017 8:18 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 29 of 169 (800095)
02-19-2017 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
02-19-2017 6:45 PM


You do realize people can actually read my post and know it does not imply anything of the sort. Argue against what I actually posted not some bs you invent.
Quit lying please.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 02-19-2017 6:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 169 (800096)
02-19-2017 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by herebedragons
02-19-2017 7:30 PM


IT IS NOT ABOUT RACE
I did not make a racist slur...
Identifying the race of immigrants as some kind of evidence of a previous racist policy is racist in itself. Everything has become about race that never was about race in the first place. "Diversity" is now about race, the lowest category of human division possible; not about ability, not about character,l not about cultural compatibility,l just raw stupid physical characteristics, exactly what MLK preached AGAINST. He wanted a color-blind society but the Left and Obama as its spearhead for the last eight years (That's why he's been called the Divider in Chief), have promoted the opposite, a culture of racism. Yes, the nation has always had quotas, not RACIAL quotes but quotas based on ability to contribute to OUR CULTURE,k to our economy, to our AMERICAN way of life. \Reducing everything to race is political correctness, NOT AMERICAN Constitutional idealism. The product of Leftist brainwashing in the universities, designed to destroy American culture. Wow has it succeeded. You have been taught to think like a racist, which is a plank in the platform designed to destroy America and the West. Oh if only you'd all wake up, all of you who have absorbed this destructive way of thinking.
I insinuated that when immigration is predominately white, it's good but when it's heavily Muslim or Mexican, it's bad.
That's because it IS bad. Both culturally undermining and ideologically dangerous. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE but you've bought into that lie. University influence probably because that's where most of it comes from. Destroy the minds of the young so they can destroy the whole culture and absorb us all into their totalitarian global exploitative system.
The rhetoric is that we need to protect ourselves from these "bad hombres" that are coming here to rape, steal, kill and change our sacred way of life.
Trump has emphasized the criminal element that is a big part of illegal entrance, and that's where he's focused, and he's quite right to focus there. Immigration quotas OF COURSE aim to keep out criminals. Sheesh. But as I say above, immigration is about WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY, and that means the culture, the economy, the morality, all of it. IT'S NOT ABOUT RACE. That's the product of the dumbing-down designed to reduce us to a third world nation.
Our policy of being a nation of opportunity for ALL people regardless of their race or national origin is what has made us great
NO! That's part of the Leftist propaganda that's been making us UNGREAT for decades, that Trump has to undo to make us great again. NO! RACE IS IRRELEVANT. It's NOT ABOUT RACE. It's about MERIT, it's about CIVILIZATION, it's about MORAL AND PHILSOPHICAL COMPATIBILITY and it's about THE WILLINGNESS TO ASSIMJILATE. Which an awful lot of Muslims are NOT willing to do.
You've been brainwashed. A lot of people have been. It may be too late to undo it, I don't know.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by herebedragons, posted 02-19-2017 7:30 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
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