Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

And conversely, why are so many theists so immoral?

There are no absolute morals, never have been and likely cannot be. It can be absolutely moral (not an absolute moral) for people to eat other people and in fact has happened.

And if you actually read the Bible stories you will see that the God character really hasn't a clue about what absolute morality or even common morality entails. In the Bible it is even necessary for a common human to educate the God character on how to behave morally.

The whole idea that there is some need for a morality giver is simply utterly stupid. To think that that giver of morality is the God portrayed in the Bible is even dumber. Biblical morality is based solely on ignorance and frankly, stupidity that grows from ignorance. The plagues of Egypt, prohibiting Moshe from entering Canaan, what was done to Job, what happened at the Garden of Eden, can only be seen as totally without moral redemption when seen from today's morality. But the authors likely did not see such things as immoral or even amoral.Like language, morality is simply a human construct and it evolves within human (and it seems other species) societies. Morality has no use or worth or value outside its functionality within that society.The very idea of some absolute morality is a pitiful and sad concept that could only be found within a totalitarian oppressive society. To have worth or value morality must be capable of change and evolution unless the society in totally static and never changing.What is needed is consensus and effectiveness. Neither of those though are universal. Neither of those demands consistency. Take as an example the Buddhist sanctity of life; often carried to the extreme of sweeping the ground before you so that you do not step on a small insignificant bug. Yet Buddhists still eat and much of what they eat was once alive.Morality only makes sense within a given situation, a given context and the very same acts when done in a different context, a different situation may be judged entirely differently.

I suspect you could examine the evidence. Do you have any evidence that morality has any value beyond its functionality? Actually, as usual, you are simply wrong. I cannot act outside the standards of morality within the society I inhabit without being sanctioned by other members of that society.I did not present any absolute but rather simply pointed to reality and a generality. Does that not say that it is relatively true?

I'm sorry but your response does not even qualify as word salad; it is simply gibberish and utter nonsense. HUH! Again, you simply respond with gibberish. Of course the rules are things that people (who are almost always the product of a natural process called fucking) are simply a creation of that society and they function as a way to maintain general order in that society. But then you finish with something that is not just nonsense but also false. It was true that I wanted a BLT for lunch but when I got it I found I really didn't want it. Truth often is solely dependent on the context and moment. What is true now may well be false a minute later.

Dawn, you've never honestly read the Bible have you?It is filled with stories showing that the God character is NOT all knowing.Honestly, why is it you Bible Thumpers have never honestly read the book?

I see you still have not learned how to read or what honesty entails.Here is the only place I mention the word true in the post you are responding to:

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But then you finish with something that is not just nonsense but also false. It was true that I wanted a BLT for lunch but when I got it I found I really didn't want it. Truth often is solely dependent on the context and moment. What is true now may well be false a minute later.

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If you were capable of either reading or honesty you would see that I already provided both the conditions and how we would decide if something is true. No where did I mention absolutely but in reality neither the meaning or context world change is the word absolutely were inserted.It was absolutely true that I wanted a BLT for lunch but when I got it I found I really didn't want it. Truth often is solely dependent on the context and moment. What is absolutely true now may well be absolutely false a minute later.Fortunately as humans we have been given a brain and if we use it we can even discover that even though it was absolutely true that I wanted a BLT for lunch, when I got it I found I really didn't want it. I can and have done so right here in River City many a time.It begins in Genesis. The God character shows up and does not know where Adam and Eve are so has to cal them. Later the God character has heard stories about what has been happening so he comes down to walk about to find out if the reports are true.Begin with Genesis 1:

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31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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Note it is after the fact that he sees it was good.Then Genesis 2:

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18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that man should be alone; xI will make him a helper comparable to him. 19 yOut of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and zbrought them to 7Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

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Of course the God character really is just a bumbling fool in this story, learning by doing, but you would think he would have know what the best help meet for Adam was, but according to the story he didn't.and from Genesis 3:

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8 And they heard the 3sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the 4cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

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9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, Where are you?

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You would think an all knowing being wouldn't have to ask were they were hiding.and Genesis 18:

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20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

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Again, the God character demonstrates he is not all knowing (and he also shows that at times humans need to teach him about morality and correct his poor sense of morality).And there are yet more.It is absolutely true that is what the stories say. We can determine that by honestly reading the words that were written in the stories.As I have said many times, those who claim to be Bible Christians really seem to have never read the Bible honestly.

Thank you for providing additional evidence to support my position. As you so aptly demonstrate the Bible is filled with inconsistencies and contradictions. It clearly shows that God is ignorant and all knowing, moral, immoral and amoral.One thing that is consistent is its inconsistency and relativity.

Or spirituality or worship or deity.

Isn't the only explanation needed for morals and morality really simple and the same explanation as needed for stop signs and lights and crosswalk markers and storm drains and paved streets and rain coats and a tennis net and so many other things?Isn't the only needed explanation for morals and morality that they help a society function?As the Bible itself says as early as Genesis 3, "No God Need Apply", "Humans themselves have all that is needed to create morals and morality. But post armed guards to keep them outta my Garden and off the lawn."

Please point out where I mentioned abortion?You do know that abortions are not a human invention and in fact most abortions happen quite naturally?Why do you seem incapable of NOT lying?

And because it was their Christian Duty.But it's really good that you brought this up because it more than adequately explains morality.Morality is a human construct that is societal in nature. It exists only with the general consensus of a population. The Nazis had one set of moral codes. Other nations had different moral codes (though not very different). For example, the US provided a great example of how to commit genocide efficiently with how it treated Native Americans and even at the time of the rise of the Nazis there was great support for the idea of removing Jewish Influence here in the US. I'm sure you are aware of the MS ST. Louis incident, the Voyage of the Damned. It was certainly not one of those unreported news stories.Morality is a social contract and as such just like humans, evolves.

That of course is not what I said or included in what you quoted. It is also a really stupid thing to say.Of course morality has a purpose in reality, it is a set of rules and guidelines a society uses. It's not anymore a biological process than any other set of rules or guidelines. And what the hell does "When death comes around, it won't care what you think, correct" have to do with the topic?Are you really totally unable to hold a reasonable conversation with at least a small attempt to address the topic?

Amazing. You almost show understanding and then seem to lose it.Yes, morality does evolve and evolve, it is a societal construct and there are different sets of morality. But Dawn, that is also true of the so called morality found in the Bible stories and in the many different God characters found in those stories. The God of the Bible is very much like Hitler but the Hitler was certainly far more moral than the God of the Bible by the general standard of morality seen in the world today. It is done through a process called consensus. It is a matter of societal agreement. Society discusses the issue we call morality and sets up a body of rules of behavior. Those rules then become the standard until such time as the society modifies the rules. You are free to say such things under our current morality set, but of course that does not make them true or logical or reasonable or supportable. Burning someone alive and a tree falling are quite different. One is an immoral act while the other is amoral. See, you keep making statements that seem to have absolutely no informational content. I have to ask. Is English not your first language? Could the issue be that you are using Google translate or a nonsense generator?The universe has what ever meaning we has humans give it. The universe itself is not capable of having a meaning. I have whatever meaning I create in my life and my behavior during that life might give to others.