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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Milo Yiannopoulos has been uninvited as a speaker at this weeks Conservative Political Action Conference A ray of sunshine :-) I don't doubt that there are conservatives who don't buy in to the far right's agenda - it's good to hear about them.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 883 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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I just have to wonder why when you hear some "strange sounding emails" you latch onto them and are certain there is something devious behind them and that evidence of those suspiscions is, without a doubt, forthcoming.
But when honest and open questions regarding something like Trump's involvement with Russia (not the supposed dossier of him with hookers in a hotel - that is surely fake news - but his business dealings and relationships with Russian diplomats) are brought up, you quickly dismiss them as fake news without even needing to hear the evidence for or against? I think we all have the tendency to believe those things that more or less fit into our own personal narrative of the world, but you seem to take it to a whole different level. I suppose it is your tendency to see a conspiracy under every rock, but if that is the case, why not see the potential for Trump to have his own conspiracies? HBD Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Is the spelling problem actually in the original counter proposal? I guess they could have meant appose, but that would be weird. Spelling and idiosyncratic grammar were copied verbatim from the original. I particularly liked that Trump is described as leader of 'a free world'. Just one of many in the multipolar age in which we live.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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I know of no adults with or without children who would invite other adults to a party and feel the need to inform them that children will be there for their entertainment. The email doesn't say the children will be there for their entertainment. It says their presence will provide further entertainment {verbatim: have some further entertainment}. Children do have that effect at get-togethers.
We are not talking about people happening to find children entertaining, which of course they may, but they aren't invited to a party where children are offered as entertainment unless something really really strange is going on. Or the kids are entertainers. But they aren't being 'offered as entertainment' this is, as you say 'word magic'. Why email people's work emails with an invitation to at the very least, perve at kids? Why cc in a Washington Post journalist with a Pullitzer prize who writes an opinion piece? Why include an NPR journalist? Why send it from an official email address? Why provide personally identifiable information of the children? It seems a little more than complacency - sounds like the dumbest thing in the universe. Not the kind of thing I'd expect to see from an elite sex ring, let alone a child sex ring. It's weirder to me to think this is salacious.
I'm sure you know this, Mod, but as Riggamortis asked, why are you going to such lengths to try to make it seem normal when it simply is not? I'm not going to any particular lengths. Why are you asking innuendo laden questions like this? I don't care for any of the people in the email, I just think it's absurd to read child sex ring into these kinds of emails. Saying this hardly constitutes going to any lengths.
People finding these emails strange is not the fake news No, some people do find the emails strange. The fake news is the emails are strong indicators of a child sex ring, the central hub of which revolves around Comet Pizza who facilitates the rape of kids in their non-existent basement.
those denying it are the fake news. No, it is a fact that people are 'denying it' or rather, saying it's silly to read 'child sex ring' into the emails. That's actual news. Whether they are right or not does not make their existence or their opinions 'fake news'.
Yes it's odd it seems to be so out in the open but people do get complacent and take chances. Yes, emailing journalists to their work email address - an address that their colleagues, who work for a left wing newspaper and would love to spill the beans on a power-based child sex ring, could easily access - is beyond the pale for stupidity.
However odd that may be, the content is far odder. I think its odder that you read 'child sex ring' into these things. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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One factor that seems to be ignored in the whole pizza gate nonsense.
The discussions were during a campaign period and involved getting, motivating and feeding volunteers. I ran a few of them and some (Nixon's first and second campaigns) involved both kids and parents. Parents were needed for transportation, kids worked malls and parking lots and handed out leaflets in the cold and rain, parents and older kids worked phone banks and one common feature through all phases was FOOD, specifically Pizza. A second common feature was the kids had to be overseen and entertained while parents worked phone banks or drove kids out to pamphlet or campaign sites and as rewards usually in evenings particularly for the kids. I wish we had had a heated swimming pool back then but unfortunately none of the parents fessed up to having one but we did use many a basement and ping pong table. And the kids were entertaining.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
One should always play to one's strengths. You mean being a huckster carney salesman? Leaders should not avoid communicating with other leaders because of their opinions. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hey Faith, I thought you might like an update
quote: quote: Looks like Berkeley is not alone in thinking this is not a person to be given a podium ... So much for that "liberal hypocrisy" argument ... Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yiannopolous has shown enough sleaze to be discredited, I agree with that. But it was his conservative opinions the "protests" were about.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: But it was his conservative opinions the "protests" were about. And rightly so. The man is simply not fit for polite company.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I just have to wonder why when you hear some "strange sounding emails" you latch onto them and are certain there is something devious behind them and that evidence of those suspiscions is, without a doubt, forthcoming. I didn't follow the pizzagate discussions enough to decide on the credibility of the more extreme allegations but from the beginning the emails sounded fishy, as they obviously did to the others who went on to those allegations. I didn't just "latch on" to any of it, it just sounded and sounds odd to me -- on first encounter already. I really don't think there is any way to dismiss them as normal communications. But again, I haven't pursued any of the pedophile riing allegations because no matter how weird the emails are that's too far out for what little I know about it all. "Hot dogs waiting in a Jacuzzi" or something like that is another part of them. Odd don't you think? Walnut sauce on a hot dog? Or pizza? There's a lot of odd stuff, but I haven't wanted to get into it until Hyro says his piece so I'll know what he thinks about it. He also said he dismissed some of the more wacko allegations. Meanwhile anyone who is at all familiar with the content of the emails can't possibly honestly think they are just normal communications about children and food.
But when honest and open questions regarding something like Trump's involvement with Russia (not the supposed dossier of him with hookers in a hotel - that is surely fake news - but his business dealings and relationships with Russian diplomats) are brought up, you quickly dismiss them as fake news without even needing to hear the evidence for or against? Let's say I'm only too familiar by now with the Left's unceasing efforts to discredit him by one means or another, familiar with lying headlines and lying emphases in reports, and the eagerness with which these allegations have been taken up. And open threats to kill him? Good grief. It did start with that lying "dossier" and seems to be a favorite lode of accusations for the Left. I also haven't spent a lot of time on the subject but as with pizzagate if I see something convincing enough to think more about I will. Meanwhile all the conservative sources are calling it bunk, he and his team have denied it and I think there is every reason to assume, until further notice, that it's just another of the thousands of plots against him. "Honest and open questions?" Not from where I sit. Anything coming from the "MSM" or the Left is suspicious at this point.
I think we all have the tendency to believe those things that more or less fit into our own personal narrative of the world, but you seem to take it to a whole different level. I suppose it is your tendency to see a conspiracy under every rock, but if that is the case, why not see the potential for Trump to have his own conspiracies? The weight of the evidence available, the tone of the media, the skewing of reports. Hearing a lot of conservative discussions which I suppose most here aren't following. I don't bite down hard on most of it but I can see for myself what the Left is doing. If he's involved in a conspiracy that contradicts his stated platform I'll never follow another political discussion again ever. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 883 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Fair enough...
If he's involved in a conspiracy that contradicts his stated platform I'll never follow another political discussion again ever. I am not ready to accuse him of any particular 'conspiracy' or wrong doing, but I will predict that you are going to be disappointed that you supported and defended him. Or at least it will come to the point that you should be disappointed. The problem is with all this rhetoric about "fake news" it will be easy for him to do whatever he wants and simply accuse the media of reporting "fake news." With the media completely discredited among his base, he will have complete impunity. That should be cause for concern for all of us... even those that support his general platform. I just hope and pray it doesn't go too far... HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Note: same message also posted at the "The Disgusting Berkeley Riots" topic.
----- The index page for the entire hour:See You In Court | On the Media | WNYC Studios The ending 10 minute segment:How To Counter Milo's Trolling Playbook | On the Media | WNYC There is an audio link, a text summary, and a complete text transcript available via the second above link. The summary:
quote: The main points I remember from listening a couple of weeks ago: The best thing for the protesters to do, would have been to totally ignore him. News coverage will focus in on the bad. They cite two examples: 1) A large peaceful gathering (such as the incident in question) where one or a few do destruction. 2) A large Tea Party gathering where one or a few are carrying racist or otherwise stupid signs. Ryan Holiday also comments on where, in the past, he personally did an act of vandalism to make a peaceful crowd look bad. I think it is a real possibility that the destructive acts in question might have been done by Milo supporters. Feel free to listen yourself, or read the transcript(s) of one or more segment of the hour. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added "Note in red" at message top. Deleted irrelevant "ps". Shut of signature.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I am not ready to accuse him of any particular 'conspiracy' or wrong doing, but I will predict that you are going to be disappointed that you supported and defended him. Or at least it will come to the point that you should be disappointed. The problem is with all this rhetoric about "fake news" it will be easy for him to do whatever he wants and simply accuse the media of reporting "fake news." With the media completely discredited among his base, he will have complete impunity. He doesn't even have "complete impunity" among his base, HBD. And we don't need him to tell us the media are fake news, we already know it and have known it for years and see for ourselves how it has increased with his election. We're just glad to see him take it on. The fake news accusations started with the Left, against the "alt right" news sources, there have been threats to deprive those outlets of their public voice, and in fact there have been actions already taken in that direction, such as manipulating the Twitter responses to eliminate conservative opinion. Trump is COUNTERING all that, he's pointing out that the fake news is coming from the Left. Good grief man, there's a LOT of media left that aren't the Leftist MSM. They've discredited themselves. And you make ME ask you in turn, why are YOU so ready to find the fault with Trump? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Riggamortis Member (Idle past 2416 days) Posts: 167 From: Australia Joined: |
I'm sure you noticed I didn't accuse you of thinking they were evidence of anything.
Not explicitly, no. Your sarcastic dismissal of nonsense was directed at me and implied that I did think they were evidence.
I was sarcastically dismissing nonsense. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant or condescending. Are you saying that these *are* evidence of a child sex ring? Speaking of condescending and arrogant: You fired the first shot mate. I just responded in kind. If you can resist the temptation to direct sarcasm and snark in my direction, you'll find I will too. Since you have clearly concluded that the allegations are nonsense, I am compelled to ask how you came to that conclusion?
I'm not, I can just see absurd trolling and laugh at those that fall for it. I mean the original source for the child abuse link here is 4chan - home of the trolls for Pete's sake. There is the possibility that any given email could be secret code for something else - but that doesn't mean one should give it serious consideration unless there is actual reason to suspect it. I agree. I take it you have looked into the deeper reasons why some people are giving it serious consideration? How long did you spend? 5,10,30 minutes? Longer? Or did you just google something like 'pizzagate debunked' and engage in a little confirmation bias?
I don't see any reason to suppose they are evidence of a child sex ring - and will mock those that do. It makes you feel superior, does it? Or is it just about trying to humiliate the person into accepting your opinions on the matter?
Nor am I. I insist that such child abuse rings exist. I am not desperate, however, to interpret someone talking about a handkerchief and a pizza related map as evidence of a child abuse ring. Because that's absurd. People aren't looking at a couple of emails in a vacuum and concluding that something sinister is going on, there's more to it than that. You would know that if you had bothered to look into it for yourself.
In which case, why would an elite child abuse ring use universal codes in their emails? Why not create their own codes so that random hackers/burglars/law enforcement wouldn't be alerted? That is the point of an elite child abuse ring, right? I'm not inclined to infiltrate a pedo group to verify whether or not it is a well known code or not. The code provides plausible deniability, if it is a code, it's working very well, no?
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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"Hot dogs waiting in a Jacuzzi" or something like that is another part of them. No, it isn't. I've searched the emails and found nothing like that. Infowars seemed to have run all the hot dog quotes and nothing to do with that on their site either. There were some 'Hot dog fridays', which is kind of banal.
Walnut sauce on a hot dog? Or pizza? It was on pasta. Which is also known by names such as Tagliatelle al pesto di noci. It's an Italian dish. Some people were bemused by the notion in the emails, others asked for the recipe after trying it. Not nefarious.
I also haven't spent a lot of time on the subject but as with pizzagate if I see something convincing enough to think more about I will. Meanwhile all the conservative sources are calling it bunk, he and his team have denied it and I think there is every reason to assume, until further notice, that it's just another of the thousands of plots against him. He could have protected himself against the worst of it by properly putting his business in the hands of a blind trust. Not in a trust of people that have their eyes open and their interests aligned. He could have released his tax returns, as even Hilary Clinton did. Unfortunately, if you aren't transparent when you have power and wealth - people are going to wonder why. And they'll dig to find those reasons. Sometimes their hits will prove to be misses, but there's a reason previous Presidents have acted in certain ways and that's to avoid this kind of criticism. Trump thinks he can weather this storm - he, and his supporters, can hardly complain if the seas are a bit choppy. Using Trump's own reasoning, there's something fishy afoot:
quote: Why doesn't he release his tax returns? There's something on those tax returns he doesn't like.
quote: He doesn't have honest taxes, or if he does, there's something in those returns that is very bad for him. Now somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'interests', it might have '$400 million dollars in Russian energy reserves'
quote: He didn't know he was running for president, so he told the truth. The entertainment company recorded what he said.... He said 'I did try and fuck her, she was married...When you’re a star they let you do it...Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything...'
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