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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 710 (800292)
02-21-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
02-21-2017 2:54 PM


Re: Emails
The emails are strange and that's what I'm asking.
What you said was that the emails are strange and that there was reason to believe that they were coded sexual language. Well that appears to be incorrect.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 2:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 227 of 710 (800293)
02-21-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Emails
The story was: Some guy got charged with raping two women and did not spend one day in prison.
There was a fairly famous case of a guy who was charged with raping two women and only spent one day in prison after making a plea deal. His name is John Enochs - you can google the story yourself to see if it was the one that your liberal friend was talking about. Caused quite the outrage at the time.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 228 of 710 (800294)
02-21-2017 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
02-21-2017 1:21 PM


Re: The Sweden flap
But there's SO much out there about the crime rate in Sweden going up because of the Muslim immigrants it could have come from anywhere.
Wrong. If you read this it was lies.
Swedish Crime Survey - Brottsfrebyggande rdet
The source Faux used was lies.
Swedish police featured in Fox News segment: Filmmaker is a madman - DN.SE

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 1:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 229 of 710 (800295)
02-21-2017 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
02-21-2017 1:21 PM


Re: The Sweden flap
About the Sweden remark by Trump.
It isn't clear exactly what Trump was referring to, but it could have been lots of different reports on what is going on in Sweden. He said he got it from Fox News, and it's possible. He may have the date wrong. But there's SO much out there about the crime rate in Sweden going up because of the Muslim immigrants it could have come from anywhere.
The focus on the specifics of Trump's misstatement or lack of clarity is of course a version in itself of fake news to distract from the important point, that Sweden is suffering a huge crime problem as a result of Muslim immigration, which Trump used as one example to explain why we need to be careful about taking in Muslim refugees.
The problem turns out to be the stranglehold of political correctness on Europe and on Sweden. They cannot admit to the crime problem because that would be "racist." If it's racist we're talking about Muslim immigrants as the cause.
No, the problem turns out to be that the most powerful country in the world is now ruled by an executive whose policy is based not on careful analysis; but on things he vaguely remembers hearing on a documentary on Fox News yesterday.
I never thought a President in my lifetime would make me look back on GWB fondly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 1:21 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 230 of 710 (800297)
02-21-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by caffeine
02-21-2017 5:44 PM


Re: The Sweden flap
caffeine writes:
I never thought a President in my lifetime would make me look back on GWB fondly.
Oh if we could only return to a crook of a President like Tricky Dick. Them was the good times.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 231 of 710 (800298)
02-21-2017 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Emails
Anecdotes are not evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2017 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2374 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(3)
Message 232 of 710 (800304)
02-21-2017 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Theodoric
02-21-2017 6:19 PM


Re: Emails
And the plural of anecdote is not "data"
JB
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2017 6:19 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 233 of 710 (800315)
02-22-2017 5:20 AM


Apparently the Swedes are tweeting that something did happen last night.
It snowed
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 234 of 710 (800318)
02-22-2017 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2017 3:01 PM


Re: Emails
New Caty's Eye writes:
Now, deep down, there may be a nugget of truth buried in there, but that's not what people end up talking about. They talk about the story, and the story sometimes isn't true.
...
Our mainstream media is shitty and not worth my time.
Any examples from the actual mainstream press outlets that Trump says are engaging in fake news? Not the kind of examples Faith provided, which were tweets, news unfavorable to Trump, and random "stuff". There are reputable reliable news outlets out there, the very ones Trump attacks, and this should be recognized.
I mean, often I'll see a story on something I read on Reddit yesterday.
Reddit is, in their own words, "User-generated news links." This isn't who Trump was talking about, and I, for one, do not consider them a reliable mainstream media news source. Again, he called "fake news" the New York Times, CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS in his tweet that the news media is the enemy of the American People. He probably just forgot the Washington post. It should be very easy for anyone, (you, Faith, anyone) to go to their websites and post descriptions and links for "fake news" articles, if they exist.
Here, let me help you. Here are links to some articles (not opinion pieces) on the New York Times' front page. Which ones are "fake news":
Too, with the internet, I don't need someone to present facts to me; I can go find them myself.
And where do you find these facts yourself? News outlets, may I guess?
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Minor correction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2017 3:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-22-2017 11:11 AM Percy has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 710 (800334)
02-22-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Percy
02-22-2017 7:27 AM


Re: Emails
Any examples from the actual mainstream press outlets that Trump says are engaging in fake news? Not the kind of examples Faith provided, which were tweets, news unfavorable to Trump, and random "stuff". There are reputable reliable news outlets out there, the very ones Trump attacks, and this should be recognized.
I haven't started looking yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
But first, what are we talking about? If you're only accepting mainstream news sources that say blatant falsehoods and then refuse to correct them, then I'm not gonna play. That's not what I consider fake news.
Again, I could be completely wrong about what fake news is, I dunno. But if it's that, then I don't care - that never happens.
I would think that fake news would be the stories that news agency publish that aren't actually news, but are just opinions, that the public consumes as if it was news.
Like I said, the news today is just telling the public what their opinions should be. There's very little actual journalism.
The bullshit sites that post blatant lies are hoaxes, in my opinion, and aren't even news enough to be fake news. People falling for hoaxes and thinking it is legitimate news is dumbasses getting trolled, in my mind.
Reddit is, in their own words, "User-generated news links." This isn't who Trump was talking about, and I, for one, do not consider them a reliable mainstream media news source.
Sorry, I meant seeing something on a mainstream news program on TV* that I saw posted to Reddit the day before. I didn't mean to imply that I thought Reddit was a mainstream media news source.
Again, he called "fake news" the New York Times, CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS in his tweet that the news media is the enemy of the American People.
Okay, so he's not talking about the hoax sites like 'PatriotTribune.com', or whatever I just made that up, that post utter nonsense.
I think he's leaning more towards what I'm talking about: spinning facts and writing opinions and passing them off as legitimate journalism.
Now, would you like me to provide examples of that? Or are you just going to disqualify it as not being a blatant lie that isn't rescinded?
Do you honestly think that the state of journalism today is something that you stand behind and defend? Don't you agree that mainstream news is complete bullshit?
It should be very easy for anyone, (you, Faith, anyone) to go to their websites and post descriptions and links for "fake news" articles, if they exist.
Before I put time and effort into it I'd like to know for sure what we're calling "fake news"? Are you expecting the wiki or the Trump definition?
Here, let me help you. Here are links to some articles (not opinion pieces) on the New York Times' front page. Which ones are "fake news":
None of those look fake to me.
And where do you find these facts yourself? News outlets, may I guess?
If we're talking about court cases or laws, I go to the source. And if it's news sites, I go through their sources, and their sources sources, until I get to the bottom.
-
*so I don't have TV at home, but at the gym they have TVs running various news programs that I see everyday. The shit that news agencies are putting on TV is pathetic and insulting. From both sides, it's pure unadulterated spun bullshit opinions faking as being news that are completely partisan and hardly have any truth to them.
Okay, maybe that was a bit of hyperbole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Percy, posted 02-22-2017 7:27 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Percy, posted 02-22-2017 1:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 710 (800335)
02-22-2017 11:50 AM


Fake News defined
What I posted in Message 192 is what I understand to be fake news and is what this thread is based on. It is news stories that are demonstrably false. Defining it into oblivion is a pretty scurrilous tactic, unfortunately not beneath EvC of course. If you do not want to use my definition, get off the thread.

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Percy, posted 02-22-2017 12:16 PM Faith has replied
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 237 of 710 (800337)
02-22-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Faith
02-22-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Fake News defined
Faith writes:
What I posted in Message 192 is what I understand to be fake news and is what this thread is based on. It is news stories that are demonstrably false.
I think "demonstrably false" is a fine definition of "fake news" - that's just a shorter version of Wikipedia's "hoax news, propaganda and disinformation."
Do you have any examples of "fake news" from the mainstream media? By mainstream media is not meant any media anywhere, but actual *mainstream* media like the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, etc., and not a tweet , and not a comment in some outlet somewhere about an article somewhere else.
Mistakes that have been retracted, such as the MLK bust, do not count as "fake news," right? To qualify as "fake news" it has to be something a media outlet stands behind and defends as accurate, as for one example the media did with its news stories about Trump's claims about the size of his inauguration crowds. It can't be something retracted.
And "fake news" is definitely not just any news that fails to say positive ("incredibly fabulous") things about Trump, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 11:50 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 12:27 PM Percy has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 238 of 710 (800338)
02-22-2017 12:23 PM


Crime in Sweden is huge.
What I posted in Message 197 is simply true, there is an incredible epidemic of rape and other crimes in Sweden -- and Germany, and certainly France -- due to Muslim "immigrants." Rapes, gang rapes, burning cars, etc. Denying this takes an amazing blindness, it's hard to explain. Just believing the fake news that is determined to deny it?" Is there any honesty here at all? Not too surprising if not I guess since the dishonesty is out there all over the leftist landscape. They've threatened censorship of the truth and it's probably already underway and soon may be complete, but it's still possible to find some reports of the truth. Just go to You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rape+in+sweden

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 239 of 710 (800339)
02-22-2017 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Faith
02-22-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Fake News defined
In the OP you claimed that talk of setbacks was "fake news".
The "setbacks" are fake news.
The court decisions against Trumps Executive Ordern immigration were certainly a setback. And yet it is demonstrably true that the courts did, in general decide against Trump, with the result that he is preparing a new Executive Order intended to avoid (at least some of) the problem areas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 710 (800340)
02-22-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Percy
02-22-2017 12:16 PM


Re: Fake News defined
Of course retractions don't count in these situations because the point is to get the false idea into the public mind and the retraction rarely gets into the public mind.
Most of the stories reported in that link I saw somewhere on the internet such as on Yahoo News. That ought to count as mainstream news. The first story was published in the Daily Beast. That ought to count.
But the definition of fake news ought not to hinge on such specifics, it ought to be defined by how widespread the lie is.
If you can tell me to get off your thread, I should be able to tell you to get off mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Percy, posted 02-22-2017 12:16 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Percy, posted 02-22-2017 2:28 PM Faith has replied

  
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