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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I gave the link to the YouTube page in the previous post on the subject of Sweden. Here I'll give one of the videos. It takes a determination to maintain a blindness to the truth to deny such a report:
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: They've threatened censorship of the truth and it's probably already underway and soon may be complete, but it's still possible to find some reports of the truth. Just go to You Tube: "Just go to youtube" that's got to be the carrion call of the new alt.facts movement. Get a T shirt made quick. Some old fashioned facts
Again, it doesn't ring true, and this time because the numbers don't add up. According to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Br), the number of rapes reported annually in the country per 100,000 citizens has been relatively steady for almost a decade. In 2016 there were 67 reported rapes per 100,000 people, 60 in 2015, 69 in 2014, 63 in 2013, 66 in 2012, 69 in 2011, 64 in 2010 and 2009, 59 in 2008 and 52 in 2007. Those figures show there was actually a 12 percent dip in the number of rapes reported in Sweden in 2015 — the year the country received a record 163,000 asylum applications, at the peak of the refugee crisis. The figures for 2016 are preliminary. Just a moment... There are some other interesting facts that you might like to dismiss in that link too. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Conspiracy theory ranting aside is there any reason we should trust a YouTube video over the official crime figures ?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
... is there any reason we should trust a YouTube video over the official crime figures? Honesty. An honest assessment of the video shows its truthfulness over the statistics.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
What I posted in Message 197 is simply true, there is an incredible epidemic of rape and other crimes in Sweden
Ain't so. Crime and rape is pretty flat in Sweden. There was a small uptick in rape in 2016 compared to 2015, but rapes in 2016 were fewer than in 2014. Last year there were 50% more murders in Orlando/Orange, Florida, than in all of Sweden.
quote: Here are Sweden's crime stats for 2016: analysis:
quote: Your sources are fake news.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: You have said that sort of thing before - and it has usually been dishonest. So. On what grounds would I honestly conclude that a video on YouTube made by I don't know who is more truthful than the statistics ?
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
New Cat's Eye writes: But first, what are we talking about? If you're only accepting mainstream news sources that say blatant falsehoods and then refuse to correct them, then I'm not gonna play. That's not what I consider fake news. Faith pretty much agrees with me, see Message 236. She deemed "fake news" to be news that is "demonstrably false." I think you're looking for some other definition. I *do* want to understand what people mean, but that doesn't include accepting that their words mean precisely what they mean them to mean. Language *is* malleable, but not day-to-day or post-to-post. Right now "fake news" has a particular meaning, let's use it despite any attempts by someone living on Pennsylvania Avenue to sow confusion.
Again, I could be completely wrong about what fake news is, I dunno. But if it's that, then I don't care - that never happens. Huh? Of course it happens. In particular it happened over and over and over again during the election. What do you think Pizzagate and murder-suicide-FBI-agent-investigating-Hillary-Clinton-gate were? They were "fake news," just not in the mainstream media. If that's what you meant, that it never happens in the mainstream media, then though I disagree with the characterization of "never" I would agree that it is far more rare in the mainstream media than in the heaps of Internet-based media outlets that have sprouted like weeds.
I would think that fake news would be the stories that news agency publish that aren't actually news, but are just opinions, that the public consumes as if it was news. Again, that's not the definition of "fake news." That's something that happens, but deeming misinterpreted opinion pieces as "fake news" would be incorrect.
Like I said, the news today is just telling the public what their opinions should be. There's very little actual journalism. You must be thinking of when cynicism was cool.
The bullshit sites that post blatant lies are hoaxes, in my opinion, and aren't even news enough to be fake news. People falling for hoaxes and thinking it is legitimate news is dumbasses getting trolled, in my mind. An apparently large portion of Americans have difficultly telling fact from fiction, in effect have a faulty bullshit meter.
I think he's leaning more towards what I'm talking about: spinning facts and writing opinions and passing them off as legitimate journalism. No, that wouldn't be entirely accurate. While he is easily bothered by reporting unfavorable to him, he was upset because the mainstream media disagreed that his inauguration was the biggest ever, during his first press conference called CNN "fake news" because they reported on the existence of the dossier of his Russian involvement, and he was very upset at the news media during his last press conference because they reported on investigations into his Russian ties. All these things were true and reported accurately, yet to Trump they are "fake news."
Now, would you like me to provide examples of that? If you think you've found "spinning facts" and opinions that shouldn't be part of any legitimate news piece in the mainstream media then sure, provide examples. At some point you do have to stop merely claimging "They did this and they did that" and start providing some evidence for what you're talking about.
Do you honestly think that the state of journalism today is something that you stand behind and defend? Don't you agree that mainstream news is complete bullshit? You're starting to sound nutty. If it weren't for the news media I wouldn't know about, or have any way of knowing about, Trump's plans for changing immigration enforcement, the DeVos/Sessions disagreement about transgender bathroom rules in schools, pipeline protesters in North Dakata approaching a deadline for vacating, and Bao Bao the panda returning to China to breed.
If we're talking about court cases or laws, I go to the source. And if it's news sites, I go through their sources, and their sources sources, until I get to the bottom. Sounds fascinating, but how does this work in practice to go through to their sources? For example, concerning the story about the DeVos/Sessions disagreement, what does going to the source entail? --Percy
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1504 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
quote: "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Honesty. An honest assessment of the video shows its truthfulness over the statistics. No, it does not. A video represents a tiny section of speakers talking about something and gives their impressions. Further, those speakers are selected by whoever is producing the video. Anyone can make a video. Did you do any fact checking on what appears in the video? How would you do that checking? Is it just that you know the truth when it agrees with you? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Did you watch the videos you are judging as "fake news?"
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, there are lots of such videos, lots and lots of them. But in my opinion even one made by an honest observer should be enough to suggest to an honest viewer that perhaps the truth isn't being promoted by the usual sources.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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and how do you know that the observer is honest?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's obvious. Take it or leave it.
This need to pretend that these things are not happening in Europe is astonishing.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
And if it's news sites, I go through their sources, and their sources sources, until I get to the bottom. That sounds great in principle, but I doubt you can do that effectively. I agree with you that there is a problem with main stream media. The problem I see is the drive for the sensational and entertaining in order to drive eyeballs to their advertising stream. Print media is of so little profitability that news papers are an after thought.
Like I said, the news today is just telling the public what their opinions should be. There's very little actual journalism. Perhaps that is because facts should dictate your impression of what is correct. It may well be impossible to maintain the illusion that Trump's administration is a well oiled machine if we are actually seeing the results of its work. Or maybe you just cannot separate news from editorials and other opinion pieces. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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