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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 121 of 275 (800376)
02-22-2017 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Theodoric
02-22-2017 2:47 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Well, he took it back, and I'll leave it at that for now, until I can listen to more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Theodoric, posted 02-22-2017 2:47 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 3:45 PM Faith has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 122 of 275 (800377)
02-22-2017 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:38 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
After watching some of the press conference given by Yiannopolous I understand that he didn't mean to be extolling pedophilia, which is what he originally seemed to be doing
Well that's what originally said, did you not see it? He argued having sex with 13 year olds is not paedophilia therefore he wasn't arguing in favour of paedophilia.
quote:
You're misunderstanding what paedophilia means. Paedophilia is not a sexual attraction to someone, 13 years old, who is sexually mature. Paedophilia is the attraction to children who have not reached puberty.
I'll leave it to you to decide if you think having sex with 13 year olds is problematic. He was extolling the virtues of having sex with 13 year olds, where said 13 year olds were sexually mature. He has now said this was wrong, but it was exactly as it seemed to be - which to his credit he called wrong. He avoided some specificity over what was wrong, but the implication was there, and it was a little deceptive, but that's to be expected from Milo.
So it's not fake news
It was never thought of as fake news. His words were quite clear.
and he's now corrected his first impression quite believably in my opinion, taking most of the blame for it himself, on his style of gay British sarcasm.
His statement was contrite and appropriate. But I reject that it was 'gay British sarcasm'. I posted the full statement earlier, despite his claims that the video was cut, it included the portions where he agreed with the age of consent - and also the parts where he said he hated liberals for their 'arbitrary and oppressive idea of consent which totally destroys the understanding many of us have of the complexities and subtleties and complicated nature of many relationships'.
The context of the discussion, despite his claims in his statement was about 17 year olds. It was about relationships below the age of consent who despite 'arbitrary' lines drawn from legal purposes are morally able to consent. Liberals of course, have been long saying the same thing, while also arguing that the lines need to exist in law. He should have argued against the right wing for their steadfast absolutist stance on these things, but he prefers to attack liberals for saying the things he admitted in his apology about how victims can be victims without realizing or thinking of themselves as victims but how these things can affect lives without the victim realizing it. Strange that he took the opportunity to take a potshot at 'victimhood culture' while also acknowledging this liberal position. I think its evidence that his own caricature of his opponents has resulted in some of his bizarre contradiction in this matter. I hope he comes to learn more about the issues.
Here is further context from the uncut video I posted earlier from the other commenters that shows the context of the discussion:
quote:
Milo:...this sort of child abuse stuff to the point where we are heavily policing relationships between consenting adults like grad students and professors at universities.
someone else: I have a video on consent if you want to watch that.
....
SE: If Milo is OK with adults getting their cock sucked by 14 year olds...{some unrelated Banter}
Another SE {I think called 'Paul'}: The whole consent thing is not some black and white thing that people try and paint it. Are there 13 year olds capable of giving informed consent to have sex with an adult? Probably. but I was also a 13 year old. I hung around with 13 year old guys....and there were some of them that still thought girls were fucking 'icky' at 13; and not many but they were just coming out of that phase. I don't know that I was ready at 13 to get fucked in the ass by a 28 year old black drag queen is what I'm saying. The reason these age of consent laws exist is because we have to set some kind of barometer here. We've got to pick an age where we can reasonably be assured you're an adult, you can give informed consent, you understand the risks - pregnancy risks and all that bullshot
Then Milo gives his monologue I posted in full in Message 108 where agrees with the law, but argues that morally it can not only be OK, but life affirming for a 13 year old who is sexually mature to have a sexual relationship with an older person (focussing particularly on gay relationships).
So I think he was deceptive in his re-framing, although I support his contrition and apology at his flippancy and disregard for victims - and it's only human to do a bit of reframing when you've had the kind of pushback he's had. I think he's right to call his comments 'wrong', although it does undermine his point about the arbitrary nature of age of consent laws. I also acknowledge that some media outlets reported his comments about learning BJ techniques from a priest as if they were sincere, which is ridiculous - they clearly were a joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 123 of 275 (800378)
02-22-2017 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
02-22-2017 3:23 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Well, he took it back, and I'll leave it at that for now, until I can listen to more.
So retractions mean something when you need to forgive someone, but they mean nothing when the New York Times does them.
I have an inclination to assemble a package of "Faith's greatest hits" from the inconsistent stuff you post here. I expect that the collection will be so full or irony as to be magnetic.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:58 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 124 of 275 (800379)
02-22-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by NoNukes
02-22-2017 3:45 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
You have a terrible logic and context problem, which I've commented on many times before.
b

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 3:45 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 125 of 275 (800381)
02-22-2017 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
02-22-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
You have a terrible logic and context problem, which I've commented on many times before.
Yes, that is indeed your standard response when I've caught you in some manner of idiocy or hypocrisy.
As long as we are talking about irony, let's discuss how you dismiss what you watch on TV news or anything that is not pro Trump, but readily accept random videos on youtube because they happen to support what you believe. Who does that and isn't a moron?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 3:58 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2017 4:16 PM NoNukes has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 126 of 275 (800382)
02-22-2017 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by NoNukes
02-22-2017 4:12 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
quote:
Who does that and isn't a moron?
Maybe the sort of person who tries to pass off her guesses as facts ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 4:12 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 4:20 PM PaulK has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 275 (800383)
02-22-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by PaulK
02-22-2017 4:16 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
NN writes:
Who does that and isn't a moron?
Maybe the sort of person who tries to pass off her guesses as facts ?
Yes. Perhaps my desire to view all posters as honest is betraying me.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2017 4:16 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 4:57 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 128 of 275 (800384)
02-22-2017 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by NoNukes
02-22-2017 4:20 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
It is of course a lost cause to try to have a conversation with someone who i8s logic and context challenged, so I'll keep it simple: the only thing you've ever "caught" me in is your own false logic and ridiculous inability to grasp context, nothing to do with me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 4:20 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 9:08 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 275 (800388)
02-22-2017 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
02-22-2017 4:57 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
so I'll keep it simple: the only thing you've ever "caught" me in is your own false logic and ridiculous inability to grasp context, nothing to do with me.
Is it still your position that you are the victim of fake news with respect to Milo?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 4:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 9:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 130 of 275 (800389)
02-22-2017 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by NoNukes
02-22-2017 9:08 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Message 118, first phrase, Sentence #2

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 9:08 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 10:06 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 275 (800392)
02-22-2017 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
02-22-2017 9:11 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Message 118, first phrase, Sentence #2
In that message, you claimed that Milo did not intentionally advocate sex with 13 year-olds. Is that still your opinion?
There was no basis for your initial conclusion of fake news. You just assumed that until one or more of us presented evidence that you were wrong. After reading the news conference, and reading it poorly, you jumped to another conclusion (Milo did not mean to advocate) from which you had to be disabused. Your final action was to promise to re-read, but I have yet to see any evidence that after three tries you have reached a proper conclusion based on the facts.
Keep continuing to argue that I never catch you in foolishness. But the record demonstrates otherwise Ms. "King James lived a blameless Life."
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 9:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 10:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 132 of 275 (800393)
02-22-2017 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by NoNukes
02-22-2017 10:06 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Fake news means the initial report was false, which was a possibility. Turns out the initial piece of information came from him. You seem to love to find little faults to complain about. Why?
No, you accused me of nypocrisy, not "foolishness." Being wrong is to be expected, but I am not a hypocrite. However, you ARE logic and context challenged.
Why are you so eager to catch me in something anyway?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 02-22-2017 10:06 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 02-23-2017 1:40 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 275 (800399)
02-23-2017 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
02-22-2017 10:46 PM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
Fake news means the initial report was false, which was a possibility. Turns out the initial piece of information came from him. You seem to love to find little faults to complain about. Why?
Why, young moth, do you keep returning to the candle wick? Ms. "Protestants never persecuted Quakers"?
Did you check things the reports before you made your silly post? Yet both Milo's original words and his apology were readily available. Did you check them before claiming to have been victimized.? No, you did not. Why not? I think it is because you read something you think you like and post it.
Did you then do a poor reading of those things before concluding that Yiannopolous had redeemed himself? Yes, you did do that poor reading, because you missed the entire sense of his apology. You promised us that you'd read more. Did you do that? No.
You continue to act as if Percy does not maintain a record of our posts here. Your inanity is on full display. I'm nothing special. Anyone here could point out the same silliness I see.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 10:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 2:00 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 134 of 275 (800401)
02-23-2017 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by NoNukes
02-23-2017 1:40 AM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
YOu just can't tell the truth can you? I didn't "yell" about any of it. I wasn't following this thread and then Dr. A came along saying something about how I joined in the criticism of Yiannopolous because I like white straight men. I had seen the main quote and thought it pretty sleazy and said so. I was not following the topic or this thread. Then I saw some conservative sites defending him and then Dr. A said what he said so it occurred to me that perhaps I'd been the victim of fake news and said that, hoping to leave it there for the time being. As usual I can't say anything without someone making it into a big drama in which I'm the evil villain. I then listenedtp the first maybe ten minutes of his press conference and heard his apology and wanted to leave it there. But along come the EvC bashers who just will not let me leave anything. More accusations, insinuations etc. I have no interest in studying the situation beyond where I left it. No I didn't check anything. I wanted to leave it where I left it. I still do.
Overall I'm happy with my record here. I'm aware of hundreds of terrifically good posts I've made that nobody here appreciates but I know they're good. I could not care less about occasional mistakes. You do of course, you delight in them, but I don't. Your inanities rival mine any day. I know better than to care about anybody's opinion here. It means nothing to me because I recognize the complete alternate universe it comes from. Of course I defend myself, such slander needs to be answered.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by NoNukes, posted 02-23-2017 1:40 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by NoNukes, posted 02-23-2017 11:15 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 275 (800418)
02-23-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
02-23-2017 2:00 AM


Re: Yiannopolous redeemed himself
YOu just can't tell the truth can you? I didn't "yell" about any of it.
Did I say that you yelled. This time?
Then I saw some conservative sites defending him and then Dr. A said what he said so it occurred to me that perhaps I'd been the victim of fake news and said that,
The time to check for truth is before you post and not after. Why is that one single suggestion, to vet your sources before taking a position, so alien to you?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 2:00 AM Faith has not replied

  
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