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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 286 of 710 (800416)
02-23-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


quote:
I know what I'm posting is the truth, what can I possibly do to convince anyone else?
The problem is that you don't truly know any such thing. You see claims that suit your prejudices and you agree with them. That is possibly the biggest reason why you are so often wrong (the main competitor would be your tendancy to voice your prejudices as knee jerk reactions with no regard for the truth)
quote:
I don't know, how does one prove something is going on across the world that is denied by major sources of information?
Instead of resorting to conspiracy theories maybe you should consider the possibility that the reason you can't find reliable evidence is that you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 10:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 11:12 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 287 of 710 (800417)
02-23-2017 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by PaulK
02-23-2017 11:09 AM


I know I am right. Consider it from that point of view for a change and then offer advice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by PaulK, posted 02-23-2017 11:09 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by jar, posted 02-23-2017 11:17 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 290 by PaulK, posted 02-23-2017 11:26 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 297 by JonF, posted 02-23-2017 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 288 of 710 (800419)
02-23-2017 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


Faith writes:
I know what I'm posting is the truth, what can I possibly do to convince anyone else?
Well, Chicken Little... you can wait for the sky to fall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 10:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 289 of 710 (800420)
02-23-2017 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by Faith
02-23-2017 11:12 AM


Faith writes:
I know I am right.
Okay, then stop looking at YouTube videos. Instead, use the internet to find the State websites in Europe. Look at the statistics the people actually there are posting.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 11:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 290 of 710 (800421)
02-23-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by Faith
02-23-2017 11:12 AM


In what way should I consider it that I haven't already ?
It is a fact that you often claim that falsehoods are true. It is a fact that you don't have the evidence that would justify a claim to knowledge. It is a fact that your claim to have better judgment than the rest of us is a laughable joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 11:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 291 of 710 (800423)
02-23-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


I guess it's hopeless. Political correctness rules. Nobody here wants to believe the truth about what's going on in Europe. Deep grief.
Your problem is that you know the truth without needing any objective evidence. If somebody says it in a way you find convincing, you believe it. I won't speculate here on why that might be, but many people don't have your reasons to believe what you believe. Understandably they want evidence.
If that is the state of affairs that constitutes "PC" then you haven't described a problem at all. Evidence based reasoning is the rational way to behave.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 10:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 710 (800424)
02-23-2017 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by New Cat's Eye
02-23-2017 10:18 AM


Re: Emails
For example, when I heard in the mainstream news that Trump passed an executive order to ban muslims I was shocked. So I went to the executive order, itself, and read it. It was temporary and didn't mention the word "muslim" once. "Muslim ban", pssh, what a load of bullshit.
You believe a Muslim ban must mention the word Muslim?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-23-2017 10:18 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(1)
Message 293 of 710 (800433)
02-23-2017 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
02-18-2017 5:45 PM


You're the batshit crazy one...
You're so sexy when you swear, Faith.
Edited by Aussie, : No reason given.

"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 02-18-2017 5:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 294 of 710 (800435)
02-23-2017 1:36 PM


Jar on the real threat to democracy:
It's not Islamic Militants.
It's not Communists.
It's not illegal immigrants.
It's not Roman Catholicism.
It's not liberals.
It's Donald Trump according to a former Navy Seal, a retired four-star Admiral William McRaven.
The battlelines are only too clearly drawn these days.

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by jar, posted 02-23-2017 1:52 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 295 of 710 (800436)
02-23-2017 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Faith
02-23-2017 1:36 PM


Thank you Faith. Yes, I hope the lines are becoming clearer though there is still much that is simply wrong.
The CPAC at least acknowledges that Alt-Right is Fascist even though they are still ignorant that it is another Conservative Fascist group.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 1:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 1:56 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 296 of 710 (800437)
02-23-2017 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by jar
02-23-2017 1:52 PM


I'm afraid you're in for a terrible shock.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by jar, posted 02-23-2017 1:52 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 297 of 710 (800440)
02-23-2017 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Faith
02-23-2017 11:12 AM


I know I am right. Consider it from that point of view for a change and then offer advice.
Admit you are a fallible mortal who could be wrong.
Or are you claiming infallibility?
Again?
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 11:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 298 of 710 (800442)
02-23-2017 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


I know what I'm posting is the truth
How?
You posted one video that said essentially that 'The numbers don't exist but we know Sweden's 'rape problem' is due to immigration because foreign right-wing newspapers like the Daily Caller and the Daily Mail report rapes weekly - and even though there are tens of thousands of rapes - and only 52 weeks in a year - we know this accounts for a rise in the order of tens or hundreds of thousands of rapes'. That doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me.
Nobody here wants to believe the truth about what's going on in Europe.
I live there, in a Muslim dense area. Are you suggesting what you are reading in biased American news media trumps the life I am living?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 10:43 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Rrhain, posted 02-23-2017 6:45 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 299 of 710 (800444)
02-23-2017 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by New Cat's Eye
02-23-2017 10:18 AM


Re: Emails
New Cat's Eye writes:
When Trump called the New York Times, CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS fake news in his tweet, I think he was talking more like I am than the wiki-definition.
Yes, I've said this several times, that Trump is using the term incorrectly. When Trump says "fake news" he means news that isn't favorable to him, like news about his Russian ties or his wall. Sometimes by "fake news" he means news that was leaked, like his phone conversations with foreign heads of state. He definitely doesn't mean "demonstrably false" news (Faith's definition of "fake news"), or if he does then he's demonstrably wrong.
So you can't expect me to use the wiki-definition to provide examples of what I think Trump was talking about. If that's just off the table, then that's fine too.
I think it's fine to talk about what Trump is referring to when he says "fake news," as long as it is well understood that he's using the term incorrectly. For example, if we were to discuss Trump's phone call to the prime minister of Australia, reports of which Trump labels "fake news," it must be understood that it isn't "fake news" at all, and that the media that reported it was not concocting "fake news" but was reporting news truly and accurately.
On the other hand, passing off partisan opinions that spin the truth so far that it's barely recognizable is something that we do have a problem with.
A link or two to examples?
For example, when I heard in the mainstream news that Trump passed an executive order to ban muslims I was shocked. So I went to the executive order, itself, and read it. It was temporary and didn't mention the word "muslim" once. "Muslim ban", pssh, what a load of bullshit.
If it's bullshit then why did the Ninth Circuit rule that the order was targeting Muslims? Courts know better than to blindly accept an order's overtly stated purpose.
I'm going from memeory here, and honeslty I'd have to look into it more before I came to a conclusion, but when I saw Trump calling CNN fake news I didn't see that being because they reported on the existence of the dossier, but instead what they said about it. I'm not sure though, I'll have to look further.
There were a couple stories. When Trump held his first press conference back in January and called CNN "fake news" I believe there was just the one report (this one) that both Trump and Obama had been briefed on the existence of a dossier. Later, in February there was a second report (this one) that investigators had corroborated some of the information in the dossier.
If you don't read the mainstream press, not even Fox News, there seems no way to know what reports Trump is talking about when he accuses them of "fake news." Seems like quite a handicap.
Did it ban muslims? Did it ban muslims? No, it didn't.
You were much more accurate when you said that the executive order didn't mention Muslims, because it definitely had the result of banning Muslims. There were actual real Muslims stuck at airports (a hundred or two) and many more stuck in limbo at various stages of being in transit.
Sounds fascinating, but how does this work in practice to go through to their sources?
Court cases, and laws, and executive orders are available online outside of news sources.
Those sources cover hardly any news at all. Where do you go to find out about, say, ISIS in Mosul or the progress of Brexit or whether that transgender teen plans to continue his appeal to the Supreme Court? Do you really have non-news-media links to accurate information about these things - and most news, really.
For example, concerning the story about the DeVos/Sessions disagreement, what does going to the source entail?
There isn't always a source. And those are the cases where your reading hearsay. Why cloud your judgement with such drivel?
Except that it isn't drivel. Do you even know what they were disagreeing about? In any case, it's extremely relevant. It truly helps to understand what side of today's executive order each is on.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-23-2017 10:18 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-23-2017 4:34 PM Percy has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 300 of 710 (800445)
02-23-2017 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


Formal definitions seem to function to obscure the truth. ...
The purpose is to ensure people are talking about the same thing, that would seem to me to lift some of the veils hiding whatever truth there is.
... I know what I'm posting is the truth, ...
How? What paradigm do you use to verify what you are posting?
... what can I possibly do to convince anyone else? ...
Show us the logic and the evidence, using verifiable sources.
... I don't know, how does one prove something is going on across the world that is denied by major sources of information? ...
If it is happening you can find it from other sources, hopefully several different ones (and if the wording is identical they are not independent sources)
Take the #NoDAPL protests for instance: rarely reported on the MSM (unless there was a report on violence committed by the protesters ... which did not happen, or unless there was some added element that was considered "newsworthy" by the editors ... like the veterans arriving in large numbers to join the protests). This protest was going on for over a year, but you wouldn't know it from watching MSM (or Faux).
But you could find it on Democracy Now and you could find it on live feeds from the Green Party (when Jill Stein visited), and you could find it on live feed from people in the camp.
So #NoDAPL is not fake news.
Then we look at the "Bowling Green Massacre" where the only "evidence" is a claim by Kellyanne Conway. There is not police report or any other record of a terrorist attack. The closest is a report of two (2) men picked up with weapons.
So "Bowling Green Massacre" IS fake news.
Or the night of the "Swedish Meatball Massacre" where not only is there no evidence to support Trumps claim but the Swedish government issued several statements that showed that the claim was fabricated:
quote:
Fact-checking Swedish response to Trump's crime claim
At a political rally in Melbourne, Fla., on Feb. 18, Trump wrongly suggested a horrible crime had taken place in Sweden. After media reports, including PolitiFact, noted that no terrorist incident transpired in Sweden Feb. 17, Trump tried to clarify his statement multiple times.
Bildt unsatisfied with Trump’s latest charge struck back.
"Last year there were app 50% more murders only in Orlando/Orange in Florida, where Trump spoke the other day, than in all of Sweden. Bad," Bildt wrote in a tweet Feb. 20.
So the "Swedish Meatball Massacre"is fake news.
... There are lots of people telling the truth but you all refuse to believe it. ...
People telling stories are not news based on evidence, Show us the logic and the evidence, using verifiable sources.
... Political correctness rules. ...
Or reality.
... Nobody here wants to believe the truth about what's going on in Europe. Deep grief.
Nobody wants to believe overblown reports that try to drum up causes for launching a war.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
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