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Author Topic:   Change one Article of the Constitution -- Which one?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 10 (800818)
02-28-2017 2:00 PM


Article 5 - Amendment
If you could Change one Article of the , ...
Which one would you choose?
So many to choose from, what would be the most critical? For example:
quote:
Article 5 - Amendment
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
First delete the anachronistic part: Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article;
Then I would change 3/4ths to 2/3rds and clarify that passage by each of the states would be by simple majority, either by their legislatures or by popular vote on Ballot Initiatives (in lieu of state conventions).
So it would read:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose, and vote on Amendments to this Constitution, or, by the passage of identical amendments by two thirds of the several States, either by simple majority vote of the Legislatures of the states or, by the passage by simple majority vote of Ballot Initiatives in the States, which, in any Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

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Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by dronestar, posted 02-28-2017 3:35 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2017 1:35 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 7 by frako, posted 03-01-2017 3:31 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 10 (800853)
03-01-2017 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by dronestar
02-28-2017 3:35 PM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
Hey RAZD, you ol' colonialist.
Well I do think that those that grow up in the original 13 states get a better education on the history of the constitutions and the reasoning behind it. Especially the New England states.
Why did you choose the particular fraction: 2/3rds? What's your thinking?
So that amendments going through state legislatures would have the same bar to meet as the ones going through the federal congress. The current 3/4ths seems onerously high.
It could also be 60% for all cases - to match the filibuster threshold in the Senate, but it needs to be more than simple majority so that it is more of a consensus than simple majority
But also as an example that shouldn't be too controversial.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
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... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by NoNukes, posted 03-01-2017 2:26 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 10 (800881)
03-01-2017 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NoNukes
03-01-2017 2:26 PM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
If possible, could you express "seems onerously high" in more concrete terms? I believe the ERA could have been ratified under a lower standard, but can you come up with any other positive examples?
Gun control measures like Gabby Giffords & husband Mark Kelly propose with their Americans for Responsible Solutions campaign.
The majority of Americans want better regulations\controls on who can get what types of guns.
In my view, folks are more inclined to do ill rather than good when amending the constitution. ...
I get that, given average intelligence and education, but the problem I have is legislation that is blocked, not because it is bad legislation, but because lobbyists for big corporation buy off politicians and block passage (NRA for instance), so there should be a way for people to work around that.
Perhaps the simple majority in the states (state legislatures or ballot initiatives) should be 60% to pass?
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose, and vote on Amendments to this Constitution, or, by the passage of identical amendments by two thirds of the several States, either by 60% majority vote of the Legislatures of the states or, by the passage by 60% majority vote of Ballot Initiatives in the States, which, in any Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
So the threshold is at least 60% in 2/3rds of the states.
... For example, based on recent discussion here, there is a lot of hostility to a number of the provisions of the first and fourteenth amendments among certain groups of folks. I don't want the current state legislatures anywhere near being able to tinker with those things.
Oh I get that too. Currently (iirc) the GOP is a couple state legislatures shy of having enough to have a constitutional convention. Abortion being a huge issue.
But I also think it is time to review and update the document.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NoNukes, posted 03-01-2017 2:26 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 03-01-2017 6:12 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 10 (801172)
03-03-2017 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by NoNukes
03-01-2017 6:12 PM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
Do you imagine that lobbyists would be kept away from efforts to amend the constitution while still allowing the people to have access? I don't.
Indeed, I would expect a massive ad campaign.
Do you believe that 2/3 of the legislatures would be in favor of modifying the constitution in a way that might help with gun control measures? How do you keep that process from being corrupted?
No I don't, that's why ballot initiatives become important.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 03-01-2017 6:12 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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