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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 206 of 275 (801036)
03-02-2017 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Modulous
03-02-2017 7:40 PM


Re: the big picture
I am aware that sometimes a cop is way out of line and does commit murder. We all got to witness that in one case someone happened to catch on video, and the cop was rightly prosecuted. So cameras are a good idea.
And there was that sad case of the kid with the toy gun. Cops may overreact from fear you know, which could explain the disparity in that video you posted between their treatment of the white guy with the gun and the black guy with the gun (I haven't watched it, do you think it's necessary?). How are you going to change such a mental set?
And what if there is a trend of blacks tending to react threateningly to police intervention, is that taken into account in the disproportionate statistics? How about the black community take some responsibility and deal with their own attitudes?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Modulous, posted 03-02-2017 9:24 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 208 of 275 (801038)
03-02-2017 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Modulous
03-02-2017 8:38 PM


Re: the big picture
Just how peaceful IS BLM, since you want me to see it that way? When I hear about cops being killed because of BLM it's hard to think of it as peaceful. If it is peaceful overall I would be happy to know it and far more sympathetic to it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Genomicus, posted 03-02-2017 9:00 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 210 of 275 (801041)
03-02-2017 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Modulous
03-02-2017 8:38 PM


Re: the big picture
Tell you what. If BLM protestors, or the black community in general, loudly denounced the violence that associates itself with them, even the obstruction of streets that sometimes occurs and causes problems for others, I'd be far more open to your argument. Instead what I see and hear -- and I admit I probably miss a lot of news -- what I see and hear is incendiary talk, an idiot black woman who refuses to be sympathetic with the whites who have been attacked by blacks in various protests in recent weeks, not by BLM but Trump protesters, who even attack anti-Trumpers if they are white.; There seems to be a black racism that's been developing lately along with anti-police attitudes. I HAVE heard a couple of blacks denounce the violence in some You Tube videos, but there should be a lot more of that if they want to get their complaint taken seriously by more of the public.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 207 by Modulous, posted 03-02-2017 8:38 PM Modulous has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 211 of 275 (801042)
03-02-2017 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Genomicus
03-02-2017 9:00 PM


Re: the big picture
Lol. Cops aren't being killed because of the Black Lives Matter movement. You're not sympathetic to Black Lives Matter because you don't see racial injustice as much of a problem.
Could be. So convince me. Cop killings aren't going to convince me. Burning things and looting aren't going to convince me.
LOL? What's amusing about this?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(3)
Message 215 of 275 (801048)
03-02-2017 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Modulous
03-02-2017 9:24 PM


Re: the big picture
Just convince me. You are doing a good job so far. If you convince me you can convince others. If you get "us" on BLM's side then "we" will have something we can actually do -- such as joining in convincing people -- instead of just hearing about how white people are the whole problem and blacks want to kill us, which is NOT a message likely to motivate "us.".
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 242 by Rrhain, posted 03-04-2017 9:10 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 217 of 275 (801050)
03-02-2017 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by NoNukes
03-02-2017 9:40 PM


Re: the big picture
No, I admit I am not motivated to do enough research and it's getting harder all the time. Right now my eyes are hurting pretty bad. I am not up to checking a lot of sources. I'm discouraged by things that are happening, and by such things as your poisonous attitude. Just get off the thread, you're a problem not a solution.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(3)
Message 220 of 275 (801057)
03-02-2017 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Modulous
03-02-2017 10:10 PM


Re: the big picture
I can't read your post right now, and I still have to read the BLM site and my eyes are really hurting, so I probably won't get back to this until tomorrow. But thanks for your effort, you've done a really good job, and believe me I would very much LIKE to be convinced and end up on BLM's side.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 225 of 275 (801194)
03-04-2017 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by xongsmith
03-03-2017 12:44 AM


vision problem
Thanks xongsmith, very much for your concern. I try not to make a big deal about my eyes but they are a problem and maybe I should make more of it because it is a big reason I can't keep up with things here, at least at times. I'll only read the first part of an article for instance and so may miss something else in it that's important.
I am overdue to see the eye doctor but I know what the problem is and there's no cure except trying to go easy on my eyes. I have macular degeneration which I can keep from getting worse with a supplement I take but it's incurable in the end; plus a cataract in one eye, which can be cured but isn't too too bad yet; and I get eyestrain easily these days from straining to see things through those problems. The eyestrain causes the pain.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 226 of 275 (801196)
03-04-2017 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Modulous
03-02-2017 10:10 PM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
Well, it's true I would like to be convinced. I want to be sympathetic to the problems you are describing, and overall I think I am. I haven't spent a lot of time at the BLM site but did skim through some of it. I'm very bothered by the rhetoric "Black Liberation" movement. That's a page straight out of the Marxist movements of the sixties. I'm bothered by the raised arm with the fist. I'm bothered by the insistence that Trayvon Martin was murdered. Murders happen I'm sure but as I followed that case it didn't add up to murder. (This is the same reaction I had to the instances I listed earlier, the ones where a cop killed someone who came at him in a threatening manner during his attempt to deal with the man's crime. Even if the crime is petty the man was not innocent and crying injustice when a cop defends himself in such a situation is out of order IMO)
Perhaps most of the protestors are just fed up with the problems as you describe them, but the BLM rhetoric doesn't bode a peaceful protest to me. Even if most of their complaints have merit, there is still the problem of how their complaints are getting expressed in the BLM. And even if most of the protestors are peaceful there seems to be an inherent violence in BLM despite the peaceful motives of most of them (assuming most of them ARE peaceful):
Such as Leftist influence, Soros for instance, and violent elements including racist statements against white people, which may or may not be held by most participanhts in the movement. I just ran across this story for instance: Black Lives Matter Plotted to Burn Down Minnesota Capitol?
A former Black Lives Matter activist claims his comrades planned to burn down the Minnesota state capitol in Saint Paul and the governor’s mansion if the police officer who fatally shot a black man during a traffic stop had not been prosecuted.
Trey Turner, who describes himself as half black and half white, said in a YouTube video dated Feb. 27 that BLM activists planned to go on a violent rampage if Saint Paul area police officer Jeronimo Yanez had not been charged in connection with the high-profile shooting July 6, 2016 of the late Philando Castile, which they claim was racially motivated.
The violence and advocacy of violence against white people by Black Lives Matter is well-documented.*
In recent weeks, Yusra Khogali of the Toronto, Canada branch of BLM, said white people were recessive genetic defects and contemplated how whites could be wiped out. In Seattle a BLM supporter issued a profanity-rich call to start killing people including President Trump. The speaker also ranted against white supremacy, capitalism, patriarchy, and anti-blackness, dropping the F-bomb 55 times in the tirade.
Last July, Micah X. Johnson, a sniper sympathetic to the movement’s goals shot and killed five Dallas area cops before being killed. Johnson’s shooting spree took place the day after Castile died and some say it may have served as a catalyst for the mass murder which happened during a Black Lives Matter march.
FrontPage readers need to be cautioned that so far Turner’s statement is uncorroborated.
[my emphases]
After comparing your persuasive descriptions with the other information I've been finding, I come to this conclusion: They no doubt have a decent case for their complaints, but the method of protest and the ideology of BLM is violent and destructive overall and it can't serve their cause well to resort to such methods. If what they want to do is bring the injustices to the attention of the public they need to adopt genuinely peaceful methods, even protest marches but like MLK's, not these that are based on Marxist hate rhetoric. There is a big divide, unfortunately, between the cause as you outline it, and the methods of the BLM as I keep discovering them.
======================
*From the link:
Founded by Marxist revolutionaries in 2013, Black Lives Matter (BLM) depicts the United States as a nation awash in racism, sexism, and homophobia, and openly promotes the murder of white police officers. Demonstrators atBLM events routinely: smear white police as trigger-happy bigots who are intent upon killinginnocent, unarmed black males; taunt, anddirect obscenities at,uniformed police officers who are on duty; throwrocks at policeand threaten to kill them; and celebrate in the streets when a police officer is killed. Some examples of BLM's racist and incendiary rhetoric:
At a December 2014 BLM rally in New York City, marchers chantedin unison: "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now."
At aBLM marchin August 2015, protesterschanted: Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon. (Pigs was a reference to police officers, and "blanket" was a reference to body bags.)
"FOUNDED BY MARCIST REVOLATIONARIES" says it all for me. If any of them are truly committed to a peaceful protest and a genuine resolution of the problems they want to highlight, they need to start a completely new movement.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 228 of 275 (801202)
03-04-2017 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by PaulK
03-04-2017 3:45 AM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
I pointed out the Marxist theme in the BLM website itself. The "liberation movement" theme, the raised fist. If I read more of the site I'll probably find more.
abe: Oh, "pigs" for cops is a clue. Taken straight from the sixties Marxist playbook.
But that comes from the other site I see. However, if they did chant "pigs in a blanket" that ought to be possible to locate somewhere else. /abe
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 231 of 275 (801229)
03-04-2017 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Modulous
03-04-2017 11:55 AM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
I was in Berkeley in the sixties. I know Marxist symbols and rhetoric when I see them. The very term "Liberation" identifies it. We had Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, Black Liberation, every kind of Liberation you can think of and it all came out of the Leftists, the Marxists, pushed by Cal professors, and radicals like David Horowitz who was one of the leaders there at the time. The raised fist is Marxist. Oh, and "Off the pigs!" was the cry from the Left when the police were called in to deal with their occupying University property among other things. Marxism makes pigs of people. I remember the air filled with tear gas from blocks away.
And Marxism is NOT peaceful. MLK sought to distance himself from that influence for that reason. Horowitz finally had his eyes opened when he realized that the Black Panthers he had been championing had murdered a friend of his, a good liberal woman who apparently knew too much.
The site I linked that gives the history of BLM as starting with Marxist revolutionaries is no doubt correct. I see no reason to doubt it. As it says, the violence of BLM is "well documented." Some associated with the movement have provided that information as was also shown. And the chants against cops sand rhetoric against the white race, it's all there.;
I'm doing my best to believe you that much of the movement is not violent and has no desire to be violent. But I don't know if that is true since the BLM origins and symbols are Marxist. And even if it is true they should leave a movement that promotes any form of violence whatever and model themselves on MLK instead. Also, stop trying to justify violent reactions to the cops who are doing nothing but responding to a crime call, and keep the focus on the harassment and threatening attitude they see in police work that singles out blacks and in black neighborhoods. They aren't going to get solutions to those problems with any degree of violence in their movement, cop killing, white bashing, Marxist symbology and rhetoric.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by JonF, posted 03-04-2017 2:35 PM Faith has replied
 Message 233 by Modulous, posted 03-04-2017 2:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 234 of 275 (801239)
03-04-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Modulous
03-04-2017 2:47 PM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
You can address inequities for women, blacks, gays or any other group without Marxist Liberationism. I don't know if I can convince you that the term itself is the problem, it carries a ton of Marxist baggage.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 235 of 275 (801241)
03-04-2017 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Modulous
03-04-2017 11:55 AM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
I wouldn't get anywhere trying to defend even the legitimate causes of the movement when there is any Marxist element or violent element or racist white bashing element involved in it. That's asking too much. Some enterprising blacks need to get together and make the case without the Marxism and the racism and the violence.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 275 (801242)
03-04-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by JonF
03-04-2017 2:35 PM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
You are splitting hairs which can only obscure the important points. "Pigs" was the term used against the police in the sixties "revolution," its origin is an academic distraction. Marxism was the engine that ran the show, why bother to mention that there were nonMarxist followers?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 275 (801266)
03-04-2017 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by RAZD
03-04-2017 5:33 PM


Re: the big picture (BLM)
Follow the argument. I pointed out the Marxist influence on the BLM website, and I linked to a site that gives the history of the BLM as having been started by three Marxist revolutionaries.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by RAZD, posted 03-04-2017 5:33 PM RAZD has replied

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