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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 511 of 710 (801030)
03-02-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
03-02-2017 2:06 PM


SOTUS use of Navy Seal ...
Say, Faith, can you tell me what here is "fake news" or MSM news against Trump?
quote:
Vets Just Responded To Trump’s Exploitation Of Fallen SEAL’s Widow, And They’re NOT Happy
The responses to President Trump’s speech to Congress — and the stunt he pulled with the widow of Chief Petty Officer Ryan Owens — were mixed, to say the least.
The Former Dep. Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Brandon Friedman noticed a strange dichotomy in the responses to Trump’s speech, and the results speak for themselves:
Brandon Friedman
@BFriedmanDC
Media people in my feed (left) viewed Trump's Navy SEAL moment last night very differently from the veterans (right). A story in two images:
Veterans from around the country were horrified by his exploitation of a grieving woman who lost her husband in a raid that Trump ordered but would not take responsibility for.
More comments at the bottom of the article.
It looked to me like the "fake news" was the laudatory media comments, you?
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 2:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 9:29 PM RAZD has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 512 of 710 (801031)
03-02-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Percy
03-02-2017 5:09 PM


Re: Analysis of New York Times Article
Percy responds to me:
quote:
quote:
I think you're confusing the new policy regarding deportation of immigrants with the Muslim ban.
Nope.
OK...both Faith and I had the same conclusion (me at Message 505, Faith at Message 477).
Especially because I was referring to the new orders from Trump regarding the deportation of immigrants while you suddenly piped up about the Muslim ban.
Here's my original statement (Message 473) in response to Faith (Message 460)
What on earth did Trump do except promise to deport criminals?
You mean you don't know? The order is not merely to "deport criminals." Instead, it is to deport anybody "charged."
Note, that doesn't mean convicted. All it takes is for a cop to not like the color of your skin, manufacture a charge, and suddenly you're being deported for a crime you didn't actually commit.
On top of that, you're ignoring that the current policy is already to deport criminals. It's why more people have been deported under Obama than under any other administration. So exactly why did Trump need to bother?
So when you responded with (Message 475):
It's important to note that the original order applied to everyone from those seven countries, including those with green cards.
You can understand why I would have thought that you were responding to the same point that Faith and I were talking about: The deportation of immigrants. You will note that I mention Obama in my statement and there was no Muslim ban under Obama.
But that can't be what you were talking about because the policy regarding deportation of immigrants that Faith and I were talking about applies to all immigrants from all countries, not "those seven countries, including those with green cards."
The rational person would recognize that "those seven countries" is a reference to the Muslim ban, especially when accompanied by a comment about green cards.
But here you are saying that no, you weren't talking about the Muslim ban.
So since your comments cannot rationally be connected to deportation policy and you say they aren't about the Muslim ban, one is left to wonder just what the hell you're talking about.
The word you're looking for is, "Oops," Percy. I don't doubt that you understand the difference between the Muslim ban and the deportation policy, but you entered a conversation about the latter and made a non sequitur comment about the former.
quote:
You're trying to make a single characterization fit everything Trump does.
When a person is massively incompetent, it will infect all his actions. However, that is so broad of a trait that it will manifest in many different ways.
However, that is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. It's precious how you think you can change the subject. Here's my full comment in complete context (Message 505):
You're trying to find the fleck of gold in the mountain of excrement. This is the variation on the "Doesn't Kick Puppies" syndrome...that if only we can find the one good thing, that somehow negates all the rest of it. "Well, he can't be that bad...he doesn't kick puppies." Yes, the new order is "better" than what came before, but that doesn't make what was put forward a good thing. It still has the basic underlying premise that is going to send it to court which will likely not survive.
Especially compared to the other actions he has taken.
You'll see that I was referring to the Muslim ban and how the new order is marginally better than the previous order...but that it is still horrendous.
Not because Trump is incompetent (which he is) but because he put forward a horrendous policy. The *implementation* of the policy is proof of his incompetence. The actual policy itself is indicative of the bigotry that infects his administration.
Once again, we run into the "Doesn't Kick Puppies" syndrome: That because Trump isn't actively calling for a registration of Muslims, then that means he isn't a bad person...but wait...he *did* call for a Muslim registration. OK, so the fact that he hasn't actually implemented it is a good thing. It shows he's being "presidential," right?
No, it doesn't. That he is engaging in "better" behavior doesn't excuse the behavior he's engaging in. The flaw here (the Muslim ban) isn't his incompetence. It isn't his con job. It's the bigotry that infects his administration.
Are you about to predict that I'm saying everything Trump does is bad?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Percy, posted 03-02-2017 5:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 513 of 710 (801045)
03-02-2017 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Percy
03-02-2017 4:44 PM


Re: deportations
The insult is not spurious and no to your question. You've said enough offensive stuff to deserve tp be ignored.
It was obviously not my ignorance of Trump's actions that left Obama as the source of the actions and to twist it into that is just another insult to ME that I'm rightly objecting to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Percy, posted 03-02-2017 4:44 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by Rrhain, posted 03-02-2017 10:14 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 529 by Percy, posted 03-03-2017 8:10 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 514 of 710 (801046)
03-02-2017 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by RAZD
03-02-2017 5:50 PM


Re: SOTUS use of Navy Seal ...
I think the whole vets story is a species of fake news, just another case of anything we can drum up for a complaint about Trump.
I have no idea what's in your blinding white boxes. Should I care?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by RAZD, posted 03-02-2017 5:50 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by Rrhain, posted 03-02-2017 10:16 PM Faith has replied
 Message 526 by RAZD, posted 03-03-2017 7:07 AM Faith has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 515 of 710 (801055)
03-02-2017 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by Faith
03-02-2017 9:27 PM


Re: deportations
Faith writes:
quote:
It was obviously not my ignorance of Trump's actions that left Obama as the source of the actions
Huh? That literally makes no sense. Obama is the source of your ignorance? Or your ignorance has the ability to alter time and space and negate Trump's directions to the INS and thus the ICE officers who have been repeatedly quoted as saying they are following Trump's directives were lying...they were actually following Obama's orders?
quote:
and to twist it into that is just another insult to ME that I'm rightly objecting to.
Ever notice how conservatives get so pissed off when you quote them exactly, claiming that their statements are being "twisted"?
Did you or did you not just write in Message 743 responding to JonF:
TRUMP HAS ISSUED NEW ORDERS AND THE AGENCIES HAVE ISSUED MEMOS ON HOW TO ENFORCE THOSE ORDERS.
ICE is doing what Trump, and NOT OBAMA, ordered them to do.
I guess it was on the other thread that I acknowledged your information and thanked you for it.
Did you or did you not just write in Message 217 in response to NoNukes:
"You miss a lot?" No shit. You only appreciate sources that harp on the incendiary talk of folks who don't represent "Black Community" whoever the #$@&! you think they are. If you cared about hearing what they or BLM had to say you could easily find such pronouncements from black people with next to zero effort.
Of course, your ignorance is always someone else's fault. You say you did not find enough youtube videos to convince you? Youtube is a piss poor way to do research.
No, I admit I am not motivated to do enough research and it's getting harder all the time. Right now my eyes are hurting pretty bad. I am not up to checking a lot of sources.
I should point out that in that very same post, you have the unmitigated gall to follow it up with:
I'm discouraged by things that are happening, and by such things as your poisonous attitude. Just get off the thread, you're a problem not a solution.
You admit to being ignorant of what you're talking about and unwilling to do what it takes to become knowledgeable on the topics in which you would like to participate and somehow it's everybody else who is "a problem, not a solution"?
The irony is strong in you, isn't it?
How many times do you need to be burned by your own words, your own sources, your own philosophies before it dawns on you that perhaps it isn't everybody else?
I'm reminded of the joke regarding Taylor Swift:
You know, Ms. Swift, if half of all the songs on your albums are about your lousy ex-boyfriends, perhaps the problem isn't them.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 9:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 516 of 710 (801056)
03-02-2017 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Faith
03-02-2017 9:29 PM


Re: SOTUS use of Navy Seal ...
Faith writes:
quote:
I think the whole vets story is a species of fake news
What's fake, Faith? They aren't members of the military? They're lying?
quote:
just another case of anything we can drum up for a complaint about Trump.
Oh...I see...anybody who can find a majority of people who dislike Trump is lying.
quote:
I have no idea what's in your blinding white boxes. Should I care?
If you think you're going to have anything useful to say on the subject, yes.
You do understand that if you don't take the time and put in the effort to do your homework, you're not going to be able to speak intelligently on the subject, yes?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 9:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by xongsmith, posted 03-03-2017 12:06 AM Rrhain has replied
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Rrhain has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.4


Message 517 of 710 (801059)
03-03-2017 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 516 by Rrhain
03-02-2017 10:16 PM


Re: SOTUS use of Navy Seal ...
Rrhain in part writes:
quote:
I have no idea what's in {RAZD's} blinding white boxes. Should I care?
If you think you're going to have anything useful to say on the subject, yes.
RAZD forgot to make a dark background with light letters, like he subsequently did for the graphic chart on the news media outlets. Faith has also been given a tool to flip the colors to something she can see, but it may be too hard or never makes it look right enough to read.
While I may have a lot of troubles with Faith, there's one thing I'm never going to criticize her for - her failing eyesight. That's just below the belt.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Rrhain, posted 03-02-2017 10:16 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2017 2:03 AM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 518 of 710 (801061)
03-03-2017 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 516 by Rrhain
03-02-2017 10:16 PM


fake news and more fake news
Fake news as I use the term includes any news story that has no purpose other than to try to make Trump look bad. It's not really news in any meaningful sense of the word, it's just a piece of opinion from somewhere or other that has an anti-Trump agenda to it.
And here's another example: Trump ignored first rule of crisis management come clean and he’s paying the price. Just more vaguely critical opinion. Did Obama have to put up with this kind of stuff?
WASHINGTON Donald Trump has allowed his young presidency to become mired in a seemingly intractable Russia scandal by singling out journalists for attack instead of squarely facing allegations that his advisers colluded with Russia in its meddling in the U.S. presidential election.
You have to be honest and get the information out quickly so you can define it and start the process of hopefully moving on, said Doug Heye, a veteran Republican communications strategist. The truth will always come out.
The problem is that the kinds of contacts that were had wouldn't even have made a blip on their minds because they are so common and so standard and unrelated to anything that would involve national security that they wouldn't even think of them. But trust the Democrats to blow them up into something they can use against Trump and his people.
For months, Trump and his aides have been silent or vague as information has leaked out in dribs and drabs about their contacts with Russians. Instead of releasing information during the campaign or even the transition, Trump continues to blame the news outlets that are reporting the accusations.
Russia is fake news, he said at a news conference last month. This is fake news put out by the media.
There was no information to release because it was all ordinary and innocuous and Trump responded in the only relevant way by pointing to the news outlets as blowing up a nonissue into a big deal. This is an example of one kind of fake news. Anything that is aimed at getting the public's attention on Trump as a bad guy. That's what it's all about these days. News isn't news, journalism isn't journalism, it's all boiled down to "how can we get Trump?"
On Thursday, the Russia scandal reached a new urgency as it became known that Attorney General Jeff Sessions may have misled his fellow senators in sworn testimony about his interactions with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak while Sessions was Trump’s chief foreign policy adviser. After hours of debate roiled Washington, Sessions recused himself from overseeing any investigation into Russia campaign meddling after several fellow Republicans pushed him to do so.
Just another big fat lie. Sessions had contacts with lots of ambassadors on a casual basis that had nothing to do with the question he was asked in his confirmation hearing. Typical fake news.
Last month, Trump fired his national security adviser, Michael Flynn, after Flynn lied to Vice President Mike Pence
That was a big mistake because Flynn had done nothing wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Rrhain, posted 03-02-2017 10:16 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by PaulK, posted 03-03-2017 12:42 AM Faith has not replied
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 Message 523 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2017 3:06 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 524 by Rrhain, posted 03-03-2017 4:02 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 525 by jar, posted 03-03-2017 6:16 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 532 by Theodoric, posted 03-03-2017 9:49 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 519 of 710 (801062)
03-03-2017 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-03-2017 12:19 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
So real news that you want suppressed.
The issue of contacts with Russia is certainly important given the Russian's apparent support for Trump - which may have spilled over into criminal territory and Trumps apparent willingness to look more favourably on the Russians, as well as the possibility that Trump has close financial links with Russia make it an issue. None of these cone into play with Obama.
The fact that Flynn and Sessions were both less than forthcoming about their contacts with Russia is another black mark against the Trump administration. Sessions is appealing to technicalities - and on looking they seem very dubious - but the fact that he didn't mention his contacts when questioned smacks of evasion and naturally leads to suspicion. And that would be true even if his excuse was entirely reasonable - and it isn't.
Edited by PaulK, : Updated on "technicalities"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by dwise1, posted 03-03-2017 1:10 AM PaulK has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 520 of 710 (801064)
03-03-2017 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-03-2017 12:19 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
Fake news as I use the term includes any news story that has no purpose other than to try to make Trump look bad.
So what about any news story that made Reagan look bad? Or Nixon?
And what if Trump did something really bad? So an entirely factual report of that would automatically become "fake news"? So suddenly the objective facts become fake? What kind of reality-denying ninny have you become?
It's not really news in any meaningful sense of the word, it's just a piece of opinion from somewhere or other that has an anti-Trump agenda to it.
Uh, yes, factual reporting is very meaningful. If Trump did pull a real boner, like talk about allowing people to buy health insurance "across state lines" (which he did most definitely indeed do in his speech before Congress), then reporting that he had indeed done so is suppose to be "fake news" and "just a piece of opinion"?
Trump is human! He is fallible! Despite the fact that he perfectly fits the mold of either The Anti-Christ or The Beast, he is still both human and fallible.
Of course reporters will find something negative to say about him. It's hard to think of anything positive.
Did Obama have to put up with this kind of stuff?
All the fucking time! Where were you for the past EIGHT YEARS?
Oh, and do please notice that Obama always took it with grace. He didn't immediately respond with an angry tweet.
That link came across on my Windows Phone News feed. Normally, that feed splits Political off from Opinion, but that link was the leader. I wanted to point it out as opinion, but my phone's feed did not allow that.
But behind it all, Faith, what about Steve Bannon? A self-avowed Leninist who wants to destroy the government in order to bring about a war that would eventually reveal a "gray Messaiah"? Just how does that fit into your theology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 521 of 710 (801065)
03-03-2017 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by PaulK
03-03-2017 12:42 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
I am a military retiree with 35 years of total service.
If nothing else, the military is known for its endless training. Of course, that includes endless security training. Which includes repeated analysis of those who betrayed national security.
There is one overriding factor in all treasonous actions by Americans against America: money.
Even our enemies note that: Americans will betray their own country and everything they believe in just for money.
And just what is Trump about? Money!
And just what does Trump owe to Russia? Money!
So then is this Trump-Russia connection "fake news", or just the tip of the eisberg?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by PaulK, posted 03-03-2017 12:42 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 522 of 710 (801066)
03-03-2017 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by xongsmith
03-03-2017 12:06 AM


Re: SOTUS use of Navy Seal ...
xongsmith responds to me:
quote:
While I may have a lot of troubles with Faith, there's one thing I'm never going to criticize her for - her failing eyesight. That's just below the belt.
How lovely, then, that I didn't criticize her eyesight.
I criticized her incurious nature and her deliberately avoiding information that contradicts her, going to the point of inventing a Grand Conspiracy to Suppress the Truth (C) every time she runs across anything that shows her to be wrong. She admits that she doesn't do much investigation into any of the topics she talks about.
So, in answer to her question, "Should I care," my answer remains:
If you think you're going to have anything useful to say on the subject, yes.
You will recall, after all, that she declared the information to be "fake."
That despite claiming that she didn't even look at it. She doesn't know what it is or what it says, but she is absolutely certain that it's "fake."

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by xongsmith, posted 03-03-2017 12:06 AM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 523 of 710 (801067)
03-03-2017 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-03-2017 12:19 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
Faith responds to me:
quote:
Fake news as I use the term includes any news story that has no purpose other than to try to make Trump look bad.
Ah, yes. Someone takes a dump in the punchbowl and they're the aggrieved party should somebody point it out.
When we found out that he admits to sexual assault ("Grab 'em by the pussy"), HE was the victim.
When we found out that he is a pedophile (going into the dressing room of the Miss Teen USA pageant, telling a 10-year-old that he'd be dating her in ten years), HE was the victim.
When we found out that he fantasizes about having sex with his own daughter (numerous statements about how he wants to have sex with Ivanka), HE was the victim.
When he attacked a Soldier's family because they were Muslim, HE was the victim.
When he attacked and physically mocked a disabled reporter, HE was the victim.
When he advocated for torture, HE was the victim.
When he tried to claim that Trump Steaks were still around, HE was the victim.
When he said that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the assassination of JFK, HE was the victim.
When he said that Obama wasn't a US-born citizen, HE was the victim.
When he tweeted out a picture of himself eating a taco bowl on Cinco de Mayo, saying, "I love Hispanics," HE was the victim.
When he repeatedly said that Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster murdered, HE was the victim.
When he attacked US District Judge Gonzalo Curiel simply because he was of Mexican heritage, HE was the victim.
When he repeated retweeted statements by white supremacists, HE was the victim.
Exactly when are Trump's blunders his own fault, Faith? Or are you saying that any time Trump does something stupid, even if it involves national security and puts our country at risk (such as his statements that we should abandon Japan and South Korea to defend themselves against North Korea), we shouldn't say anything? Because it might make him look bad?
Does the word "sycophant" mean anything to you? What about "lickspittle"? Or "stooge"?
quote:
Did Obama have to put up with this kind of stuff?
Yes.
Of course, Obama didn't have nearly the gaffes, fiascos, and outright stupidity in his administration that Trump has had. And remember, Trump has only been in office for a little over a month compared to Obama's 8 years.
Or have you forgotten the incident regarding Jeremiah Wright?
Have you forgotten that Trump spent five years claiming Obama wasn't born in the US? That bit of stupidity is still running around...to the point that you still believe it, Faith.
Have you forgotten about the supposed "death panels" in the Affordable Care Act?
quote:
The problem is that the kinds of contacts that were had wouldn't even have made a blip on their minds because they are so common and so standard and unrelated to anything that would involve national security that they wouldn't even think of them.
Then why did they lie about having had them? Jeff Sessions was directly asked if he had any contact with the Russians during his time on the Trump campaign and he lied, saying he had it.
Then, when it came out that he had met with them at least twice, he claimed that he didn't know what he talked about with them.
Well, as Al Franken pointed out, if you don't know what you did talk to them about, you certainly don't remember what you DIDN'T talk to them about and thus, you are compromised.
quote:
But trust the Democrats to blow them up into something they can use against Trump and his people.
Right...because we shouldn't actually look into how the Russians were involved in our elections because it might make Trump look bad.
Tell that to France and Germany who are currently working to counter Russian interference in their elections.
quote:
There was no information to release because it was all ordinary and innocuous
Says who? Trump? Why should we trust him? He is the most dishonest president we've had (51 lies in the 61 minutes of his speech to Congress, Faith.) Every time he claims that there is nothing to be had regarding his staff's connections to Russians, we find that he's lying and that there were many ties to Russia. He still won't release his tax returns so that we can verify his claim that he has no business connections to Russia...
...especially because he has repeatedly said that he has done business with Russia. They bailed him out of many bankruptcies (the Bayrock Group) and he has worked with them on many deals in other countries.
In 1986, Trump wrote the following in Art of the Deal
One thing led to another, and now I’m talking about building a large luxury hotel across the street from the Kremlin in partnership with the Soviet government.
That was about a conversation he had with Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin.
But since Trump didn't actually write Art of the Deal, are you going to say that it's all part of the Grand Conspiracy to Suppress the Truth (C)? His ghostwriter lied?
Strange that Trump had a deal with Drinks Americas Holdings to sell Trump-branded vodka in Russia.
The Miss Universe Pageant, which Trump owns, was held in Moscow in 2013. Are you honestly claiming that he had nothing to do with that? How did the partnership with Russian billionaire Aras Agalarov happen without Trump?
We know that Trump Trump is connected to Russian billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev because Trump sold a mansion to him in Florida for $95 million. Now, Trump claims that this is the only time he's dealt with Russia (notice that that contradicts his claim that he's never done any business with the Russians), but his own son contradicts him. Donald Trump, Jr. said the following in eTurboNews:
And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia. There's indeed a lot of money coming for new-builds and resale reflecting a trend in the Russian economy and, of course, the weak dollar versus the ruble.
So which is it?
Have you forgotten about Paul Manafort and his connections to Viktor Yanukovych...to the point that Manafort had to resign? He's under investigation by the CIA, NSA, FBI, ODNI and FinCEN and has been caught laundering more than $2 million for the Party of Regions.
Do you know who the Party of Regions is, Faith?
What about Carter Page? Do you even know who he is? He was one of the foreign policy advisers to Trump during the campaign...and was a consultant to Gazprom, the Russian state-controlled gas company.
And then there's Tillerson, the current Secretary of State who was the head of the Russian division of Exxon-Mobil.
quote:
Just another big fat lie.
So when Sessions told Congress that he didn't have any contacts with Russia, he was lying? Or when he admitted that he did have contacts with Russia more than once, he was lying? Which is it, Faith? Was he lying then or now?
quote:
Sessions had contacts with lots of ambassadors on a casual basis that had nothing to do with the question he was asked in his confirmation hearing.
The irony is strong in you, isn't it, Faith? You realize your claim that the fiasco that is Sessions is a "big, fat lie" is actually the big, fat lie, yes?
Here is the exact exchange between Franken and Sessions:
Franken: "CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, ‘Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump.’ These documents also allegedly say quote, ‘There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government.’
"Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"
Sessions: "Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it."
Here's video of it:
The hearing where Sessions denies contact with Russia
You will note that Franken wasn't asking about "casual contacts" but whether or not there was any contact of any kind.
To which Sessions flat out denied having any communication with the Russians.
That was a lie. He now admits to having talked to them twice. And those only because we found evidence of them.
He now claims that he doesn't remember what he talked about. Again, as Franken pointed out, if he doesn't remember what he talked about, then he certainly doesn't remember what he DIDN'T talk about.
quote:
That was a big mistake because Flynn had done nothing wrong.
Lying to Congress and to the Vice President is "nothing wrong"?
Especially because Flynn directly states that since he doesn't remember what he said when talking to the Russians, he can't deny that he DIDN'T talk about sanctions? So Flynn's own admission of his being compromised is a lie?
Remember, Flynn claimed that he never talked to the Russians at all and the only reason he changed his tune is because his conversations with the Russians were recorded (which all communications with foreign governments are) and thus there was evidence of him talking to the Russians. That's how we know that he talked to them and that he was talking about the sanctions. We have him on tape.
Remember, Trump claimed on February 10 that he didn't know anything about Flynn's conversations with Russia:
Reporter, Feb. 10: What do you think of reports that General Flynn had conversations with the Russians about the sanctions before you were sworn in?
Trump: I don’t know about it. I haven’t seen it. What report is that?
But that was a lie. Trump was told about Flynn on January 26, as Spicer confirmed.
And on top of that, Trump directly stated that even if Flynn hadn't talked about the sanctions, Trump would have told him to do so:
"Mike was doing his job. He was calling countries and his counterparts. So it certainly would've been OK with me if he did it," Trump said. "I would've directed him to do it if I thought he wasn't doing it."
That is a direct violation of the Logan Act.
And let's not forget that Flynn is currently under investigation by the US Army for violations of the Emoluments Clause for his trip to Moscow in 2015.
So once again, Faith, everything you have said about this issue is wrong. You have displayed a profound ignorance about the state of affairs due to your refusal to actually do your homework before speaking and relying on known purveyors of lies to form your opinion combined with your kneejerk reaction that anybody who says anything against something you believe in is necessarily evil and part of the Grand Conspiracy.
How many times do you need to get burned?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 524 of 710 (801068)
03-03-2017 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-03-2017 12:19 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
Here's an example of what you're talking about, Faith:
You're blaming the messenger for pointing out reality because it might make a person you like look bad.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 525 of 710 (801074)
03-03-2017 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-03-2017 12:19 AM


Re: fake news and more fake news
Faith writes:
Did Obama have to put up with this kind of stuff?
Are you kidding Faith?
Don't you remember all the nutjobs birthers that were claiming Obama was not born in the US and the nutjobs that were claiming he was a secret Muslim and the nutjobs that were claiming ObamaCare (by the way passed by the Congress not Obama) was socialized medicine and that there were Death Panels and all the other absolute lies and fabrications that were aimed at Obama?
Trump's issue is that Trump is the source for much of the fake news out there today.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
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