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Author Topic:   Extremism. Where is the logic?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 24 (801109)
03-03-2017 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
03-03-2017 10:24 AM


Re: I Stand For The Working Class...
The billionaires control well over half the entire pool of money in existence. For them to not contribute is criminal at best.
It doesn't work that way, Phat. I can't claim to understand much about money so I may get some of this wrong but here goes: There isn't a finite "pool" of money that is shared among all, wealth is actually created by people who build enterprises. They aren't just hoarding something that belongs to everybody, they literally "made" it in some sense, which benefits everybody in the end because money is always being used and circulated, nobody just sits on it. The more that gets created the more there is to go around in the shole society, that's why America became so prosperous in the first place, so that even poor Americans aren't poor by most of the world's standards. If money isn't being created everybody is poor. And generally those who have a lot give a lot.
One major problem with socialism is that it stifles the motivation to build enterprises and create wealth, it makes everybody poor. I think you've bought a socialist idea of money. Maybe you should read some conservative books on economics.
ABE: I agree, however, that wealth needs to be regulated so that it does benefit everybody. Fallen humanity is naturally greedy, and that includes poor people.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 13 of 24 (801289)
03-04-2017 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Rrhain
03-04-2017 9:27 PM


LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
As I understand it, and I said I don't understand a lot about money but I've picked up a few things, it is the enterprise that creates the wealth and if there is no capital there won't be an enterprise so it is the capital that creates the wealth. Wage-earners can't create wealth, they are beneficiaries of it, though there may be an argument that they should share in it in a more direct way. Good employers take good care of their workers.
There are different levels of socialism. Scandinavia is of course an unusual case. Go with the USSR or Communist China.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 15 of 24 (801323)
03-05-2017 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
03-05-2017 6:54 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
But wasn't the wealth before capitalism all in the hands of feudal lords, who didn't get it by enterprise but by conquest? Capitalism does benefit the whole society in a way the feudal system of course did not. I'm certainly not arguing that capitalism is some kind of perfection if completely uncontrolled by law because it can be exploitative too, and it can be used against the people too, as Soros' billions are being used.

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 Message 14 by jar, posted 03-05-2017 6:54 AM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 17 of 24 (801326)
03-05-2017 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-05-2017 7:26 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Please be more specific. I don't recall a period of Capitalism defended by Thugs. When and where was that? And all the wealth created prior to modern times seems to me fits the feudal model, at least the model of the wealth all belonging to the ruling class and the rest of the tribe or nation living in poverty.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 19 of 24 (801334)
03-05-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-05-2017 7:26 AM


Soros superfunder of Leftist Politics
Soros' political manipulations are well known, the evidence being mostly the causes he funds, the political issues and the politicians he donates to. He's considered by some to be the owner of the Democratic Party.
Obama's master George Soros supporting America's Enemies At Home and Abroad
defense cuts 4 and was instrumental in the Obama policy change permitting open homosexuals in the Armed Forces of the United States. Our analysis shows that CAP is one of the top 15 organizations supported financially by the Soros-funded Open Society Institute (OSI).
The leading recipient of Soros money is the ACLU, which is so extreme that it favors the legalization of all drugs, even heroin and crack cocaine, and opposes virtually all measures taken to curtail drug use. In another example of its extremist approach, the group has rejected funds from the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations, and participation in the Combined Federal Campaign, because acceptance of the money would require adopting measures to make sure it does not employ terrorists or support terrorist activity.
Soros hired Aryeh Neier as president of his Open Society Institute (OSI) in 1993. Neier had worked for the ACLU for 15 years, including eight as national director.
In his book, Taking Liberties: Four Decades in the Struggle for Rights, Neier talks about his role in creating the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), the same group that would eventually spawn the terrorist Weather Underground...
This is one of those sites that get hard on my eyes after some reading so I'm not able to read it carefully but I got through most of it. Here's another section:
Financing the Progressive Movement
Soros is, in the jargon of the left, a fat cat perhaps the biggest fat cat of all time. And his funding recipients constitute a who’s who of the left, including the extreme left. These are the forces in society that want to see more government control over the private sector. However, their agenda is economic, social, and global.
This fat cat supports the causes embraced by the organizations he bankrolls. These include drug legalization, strengthening the United Nations, opposition to the death penalty, euthanasia, tax increases (including a global tax), immigrant rights, prisoner rights, feminism, abortion rights, and homosexual rights.
One notices that Soros finances the establishment of a number of rights that have never been self-evident or God-given rights under the American system. This reflects the influence of Soros’s mentor, philosopher Karl Popper, a communist in his youth who writings were later adopted as a basis for democratic socialism and the notion that government can bestow rights and manipulate the transformation of society on a gradual basis. Popper thought this approach would make Marxism’s emphasis on the alleged inevitable historical process and violent revolution unnecessary.
One right that he does not favor the right to life from conception to natural death is neutralized and undermined by his financial support for abortion rights and the right to die. His now-defunct $45 million Project on Death in America was used to promote euthanasia and assisted suicide.
Calvina Fay of the Drug Free America Foundation calls Soros an extremely evil person because of his support for and financing of drug legalization groups. Writer Jeffrey Kuhner called him the 21st Century Lenin because of his extreme left-wing agenda.
Soros ignored most of the attacks until, in November 2010, Glenn Beck used his Fox News channel program to present an in-depth look at the Puppet Master and one of the most powerful forces in the Progressive Movement. The scrutiny led to a backlash against Fox News from Soros and his supporters, leading to Beck’s departure from the channel. One of the groups attacking Beck was Media Matters, recipient of $1 million from Soros.
Soros had justified his money to Media Matters by saying in an October 20, 2010 statement:
Media Matters is one of the few groups that attempts to hold Fox News accountable for the false and misleading information they so often broadcast. I am supporting Media Matters in an effort to more widely publicize the challenge Fox News poses to civil and informed discourse in our democracy.
Interestingly this talks about his financing of Media Matters, which I'd said somewhere recently I'd read belonged to him. It may not belong to him but clearly he is behind it with his money.
I hadn't known Popper was a Communist, so that was interesting to me.
I consider Soros' use of his billions for leftist and globalist causes to be using it "against the people."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-05-2017 7:26 AM jar has replied

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