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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Disgusting Berkeley Riots | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Yup, that's the theory. No evidence for it, of course.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Faith writes:
quote: I'm going to leave this here:
I want every white person in this room who would be happy to be treated as this society in general treats our citizens -- our black citizens -- if you as a white person would be happy to receive the same treatment that our black citizens do in this society, please stand. [nobody moves] You didn't understand the directions. If you white folks want to be treated the way blacks are in this society, stand. Nobody's standing here. That says very plainly that you know what's happening. You know you don't want it for you. I want to know why you're so willing to accept it or to allow it to happen for others. Do you understand why I am directing this at you, Faith? You are unwilling to consider the possibility that people who aren't you have a legitimate claim to their own lives. That they would know better about their lives than you do. You need to be "convinced"? Exactly what is it that makes you think you can contradict others about their own lives? Oh, that's right. They're not you. And you know better.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Straw man. You obviously haven't been following anything I've said. I've acknowledged the legitimacy of the complaints (Modulous made a good case; I hope I don't regret it); I'm arguing against the method of protest.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... started by three Marxist revolutionaries. Again, I don't know any. Were these people classified as such by one of your websites or do they self-identify as Marxist revolutionaries - because that has not come up on any sites I've visited re BLM.
quote: Let's go over that last sentence, because that is how I perceive the movement to be organized:
... The overall Black Lives Matter movement, however, is a decentralized network and has no formal hierarchy. It started as a Facebook post that then became a hashtag on social media. People that go to BLM protests do so on their own will to protest against the deaths of African Americans by police actions or while in police custody. Protests are spontaneous, with notice going out on social media. It is people coming together to protest what they find to be unacceptable discriminatory behavior. The only "violence" I've seen during the protests I have been involved with were perpetuated by white male confederate flag waving skinheads, with "all lives matter" banners and trucks rigged to give off foul exhaust aimed at the BLM marchers, but then I don't live in a hotbed of racial injustice or where there is a history of violent racism (ie south). Now let's look at the "organizers" listed:
... The originators of the hashtag and call to action, Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi, ... quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization.
quote: No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization. Then there is this:
quote: The rest of the article is well worth reading. There is no mention of being aligned in any way with Marxism. Curiously the ONLY mention I find is on extreme right wing sites that associate BLM with the Freedom Road Socialist Organization in order to tar BLM with the Marxist brush. This is typical of right wing sites, imho. Calling someone a Marxist doesn't make them one. So I find it very strange that not one liberal or leftist group or website that I could find mentions any such connection between BLM and Marxism. That connection seems to exist only inside the right wing bubble. Furthermore, even IF they were Marxist revolutionaries, that doesn't make the movement or anyone else involved Marxist. It is a civil rights movement. Enjoy ps - does the tan text help? Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Alicia Garza No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization. From Faith's link:
quote: Patrisse Cullors No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization. quote: Opal Tometi No mention of her being a "Marxist revolutionary" or being a member of any Marxist organization. quote: Just so the actual allegation is brought into the thread. The primary page is here - there are links to the profiles of the three women in that article.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Just so the actual allegation is brought into the thread. The primary page is here - there are links to the profiles of the three women in that article. Yes, those are the same allegations of guilt by purported association that I saw on other right wing conspiracy websites. What I said was:
quote: What I don't see is ANY confirmation from non right wing conspiracy websites. In the absence of any such corroboration I don't see any reason to give them any credence. I also tried to work backwards from those Marxist sites to see if they linked to BLM. They didn't, at least not that I could find. Same for any link between Dignity and Power Now (DPN) and Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Nor do I see anything I would call "Marxist retoric" within the Black Lives Matter movement. These purported links appear to be fake news, like most "conspiracy news" ... Similar accusations were leveled against MLK and other civil rights leaders. It's one easy way to dog-whistle conservatives against such movements. And I also said:
quote: So calling them "Marxist revolutionaries" is an attempt to tar the movement and avoid dealing with the issues. Nor does it characterize the protests and the behavior of the protestors. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: I pointed out the Marxist theme in the BLM website itself. The "liberation movement" theme, the raised fist. If I read more of the site I'll probably find more. You can start by looking here for your Marxist Liberation Theme:
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Perhaps you are all ignorant of the symbology of sixties style Marxism. "Herstory" is a mild little clue but you never see that phrase in any other but a Marxist feminist context. "Struggle," the "Black Struggle," is a Marxist phrase. "Black Liberation" is a Marxist phrase. The symbol of the raised fist -- which of course suggests violence. The whole thing is wrapped around Marxist rhetoric and symbology.
At the very least it shows the leaders are up on the Marxist frame of reference, use the terminology, and have no doubt absorbed a lot of the doctrine. They also, or at least one of them, has ties to Black Panthers. Even if I allow that it might be more window-dressing than strict Marxist ideology to some extent, it turns me away from it as a serious movement I could support.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I have to ask you Faith. Have you read Marx works? Have you read the vast library of writings from thinkers such as Leon Trotsky? Not the bullshit pushed by the modern so called Conservatives but rather what they actually wrote?
What do you find objectionable about Marxism?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I read tons of books by Marxists in the sixties, Marxist feminists in particular. This is the rhetoric used by BLM.
Oh, "patriarchy." That's on the site too, another Marxist feminist term. Oh lots of other books too, Jacoby, cultural Marxism, Frankfurt School, can't remember the author of the big book about that. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Marxism is a lie, it's a fantasy/theory that never touches reality. It's really a religion. It's designed to create class conflict in the guise of analyzing it. It promotes violence, it rationalizes killing people who disagree with you. It is anti-American, it undermines all the freedoms granted us in America. In the form of Cultural Marxism it specifically aims at the destruction of Western Civilization.; And guess what, it has succeeded to a scary extent.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That was not the question Faith.
Have you read the works of Marx and Trotsky? Not the 60s wannabees. But the real thing?
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Oh, "patriarchy." That's on the site too, another Marxist feminist term. And the problem with the term "patriarchy" as used by third wave feminists is what exactly? Just because a concept originates in a Marxist framework doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's a lie as they use it and it's a lie designed to destroy culture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, you are just spouting propaganda.
Have you actually read the works and writings of Marx and Trotsky?
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