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Author Topic:   The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 106 of 960 (801400)
03-05-2017 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
03-05-2017 4:57 PM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
Mao Tse Tung's origination of the concept shows that it has a Marxist origin.
So what if that is true? The Chinese also invented gun powder, but we don't look for a Chinese killer every time somebody gets shot. Anyone can use PC tactics, and the examples given here show that any Marxist head start was overcome long ago.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 4:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 1:27 AM NoNukes has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(3)
Message 107 of 960 (801402)
03-05-2017 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
03-05-2017 3:54 PM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
political correctness, which IS an organized systematic arsenal of weaponry of character assassination
Faith, this is a serious question and not an argument against your position. But I am having trouble understanding what, in your mind, political correctness actually is.
To me, it means we avoid speech that is insensitive and degrading to a particular group of people. My daughter was in 3rd or 4th grade and we were talking and I said "Indians", and she said to me very seriously "Oh, Dad, we don't call them Indians any more, they are 'Native Americans'." I was a bit taken aback, but I was like, "Oh, OK." And since then, I have tried to not use the term 'Indian' to refer to Native Americans. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about that is Marxist and evil?
It also means to me that we don't use terms like n*****, porch monkey, slant eyes, spic, wetback, faggot, queer bait, kraut, paddy, and so on... You certainly don't find it troubling that it is politically incorrect to use derogatory terms like these, do you?
Has all this worrying about offending someone gone too far? Possibly.
For example, should it be offensive to have a sports team named the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins? I don't think so, but then again, I am not the group that those terms are directed at. Did those franchises intend to be derogatory? No, probably not. In fact, they probably meant them as a compliment of sorts - implying fierce and proud warriors. But the people who those terms are referring to don't feel that way about them. Should we then say "Screw you, the majority of people are not offended so just get over it" or should we be sensitive to their perceived affront and be willing to make changes in the way we present Native Americans?
Is it not better to err on the side of sensitivity? Should we not do the best we can to not make ANY group of people feel marginalized? That is what politically correct speech means to me.
So, in all seriousness, could you please define, without using political accusations, what "politically correct" speech means to you. And why you find this so troubling.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 3:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 2:20 AM herebedragons has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 108 of 960 (801406)
03-06-2017 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by NoNukes
03-05-2017 6:46 PM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
Mao Tse Tung's origination of the concept shows that it has a Marxist origin.
So what if that is true? The Chinese also invented gun powder, but we don't look for a Chinese killer every time somebody gets shot. Anyone can use PC tactics, and the examples given here show that any Marxist head start was overcome long ago.
I really don't know if you liberals/leftists are mentally deficient or so locked into your leftist bubble you have had no exposure to things we on the right have known for years, but the point is that Political Correctness was Mao's term for the Party Line that had to be toed by everyone or else. That's what Communism does, it controls people in every possible way. Political Correctness tells them what they MUST Think if they are not to run afoul of the Powers, get thrown in prison or executed or whatnot. Mao arguably wins the prize for the number of his own people he executed. Political Correctness was his way of saying what they had to do to avoid it.
But as I was also saying, Mao had a different set of principles, if that's the word for them, that the Chinese were obliged to obey on pain of punishment, than today's Leftists have for us poor hapless Americans, meaning conservatives of course since the Left very happily gives its mind over to them without a fight. Today's arsenal ought to be very familiar by now, the accusations of racism, sexism, xenophobia, Islamophobia and so on, whicfh are intended to keep us in our place and shut us up.; As Horowitz says in that speech I linked in the OP, the Left is modeled on a version of Christianity, see themselves as the saints and their ideology as the salvation of the planet, and all dissenters as of the devil. Their method of control is moralistic attacks on those who disagree, moral indignation to the max to shrivel the soul and curdle the blood. Alinsky taught a version of the same. I have no idea how many times I've falsely been called a racist and a bigot here for expressing my political opinion about anything from BLM to Islam, to illegal immigration. That's Political Correctness, it's meant to intimidate, control and shut up. It's the basis for all the wacko Trump-hating, just as unfair used against him as against anyone else.
I heard recently, correct me if something's changed or is wrong, that France's popular candidate for President, Marine LePen is threatened with imprisonment for saying that ISIS is dangerous. That's Political Correctness in actual operation, which hasn't yet come here.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by NoNukes, posted 03-05-2017 6:46 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 113 by Tangle, posted 03-06-2017 2:37 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 130 by jar, posted 03-06-2017 6:23 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 141 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2017 12:59 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 109 of 960 (801407)
03-06-2017 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
03-06-2017 1:27 AM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
quote:
I really don't know if you liberals/leftists are mentally deficient or so locked into your leftist bubble you have had no exposure to things we on the right have known for years, but the point is that Political Correctness was Mao's term for the Party Line that had to be toed by everyone or else
I think that you are the one locked in a bubble. Certainly the Wikipedia article has no such reference - despite going into the history of the term in some depth. And certainly the rise of the term in the late '80s had no emphasis on Mao at all.
As for Horowitz I will just point out that you are incredibly willing to believe even the wildest unsubstantiated accusations against "leftists" while being very reluctant to believe accusations against those you consider to be on your side.
quote:
I heard recently, correct me if something's changed or is wrong, that France's popular candidate for President, Marine LePen is threatened with imprisonment for saying that ISIS is dangerous. That's Political Correctness in actual operation, which hasn't yet come here.
I can assure you that she is not threatened with arrest for just "saying that ISIS is dangerous"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 1:27 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 110 of 960 (801408)
03-06-2017 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
03-06-2017 1:27 AM


Political Correctness
I really don't know if you liberals/leftists are mentally deficient or so locked into your leftist bubble you have had no exposure to things we on the right have known for years, but the point is that Political Correctness was Mao's term for the Party Line that had to be toed by everyone or else.
And lo, all the conservative/rightists toe the Party Line with a Political Correctness that is marvelous to behold, and woe betide the rightist who shows the least trace of original thought or the faintest shadow of dissent. (These reprobate outcasts used to be called RINOs, but I believe nowadays the preferred term is "cucks".)
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 1:27 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 111 of 960 (801409)
03-06-2017 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by herebedragons
03-05-2017 8:22 PM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
political correctness, which IS an organized systematic arsenal of weaponry of character assassination
Faith, this is a serious question and not an argument against your position. But I am having trouble understanding what, in your mind, political correctness actually is.
It gives me a headache to think that anyone would have a problem with it, but I'll do my best to make it as clear as I can.
To me, it means we avoid speech that is insensitive and degrading to a particular group of people.
That's part of the rationalization, but I have never used such speech here and yet I'm called a racist and a bigot. I give reasoned analysis of the problems with illegal immigration and I'm called a racist and a bigot and a xenophobe; I give a solemn warning about the dangers of Islam and I'm called a racist and a bigot. I've never once said one racist thing or bigoted thing. I'm simply not allowed to have the nonracist political thoughts and opinions I have. The Left is programmed to see them as racist no matter what. It's an evil horrible imposition on personal rights and freedom of speech, but oh how righteous they all feel about it.
My daughter was in 3rd or 4th grade and we were talking and I said "Indians", and she said to me very seriously "Oh, Dad, we don't call them Indians any more, they are 'Native Americans'." I was a bit taken aback, but I was like, "Oh, OK."
That actually turns my stomach. Yes, it's a perfect case. Somebody is "offended" by a term, God knows why it's such a big deal, but while your talk with your daughter was quite reasonable, you can bet that someone else using the same term would be raked over the coals by snooty haughty seslf-righteous leftists and treated like the devil's own progeny worthy of being beaten to a bloody pulp, which is how the protestors are treating Trump supporters.; Same thing.
And since then, I have tried to not use the term 'Indian' to refer to Native Americans. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about that is Marxist and evil?
See above.; It's an innocent term that goes back to a time when that's all anyone knew. Making a moral/criminal offense out of it is evil, and as with all political correctness it's designed to intimidate and shut up far more than it has any actual beneficial effect on anybody for any purpose. There is no grace in Marxism, it does nothing but kill.
(I have a problem with "Native American" myself. How does anybody know who was "native" here, whether there were earlier peoples who deserve the name. The term itself is Marxist PC propaganda. I also have a problem with "Afircan-American.: There is nothing African about American blacks. They're Americans.)
It also means to me that we don't use terms like n*****, porch monkey, slant eyes, spic, wetback, faggot, queer bait, kraut, paddy, and so on... You certainly don't find it troubling that it is politically incorrect to use derogatory terms like these, do you?
That's a false problem. Rude and uncivil terms are not the aim of Political Correctness, as I say above, since I have never used such terms or anything close but I'm called racist and bigoted and all the rest of it anyway. That claim is a red herring. I'm not allowed to give a reasoned discussion of the nature of Islam or the problems of illegal immigration, both perfectly acceptable intellectual topics in a sane world.
However. I will say that it's a species of PC mentality that serves nothing good to object to the names of sports teams. To my mind that is sheer idiocy and yes a species of mind control. We've4 got a team called the Patriots. Should serious patriots get all pushed out of shape? How about a team called the Pilgrims? I see no genuine problem with any of this.
s it not better to err on the side of sensitivity?
It isn't ABOUT "sensitivity." It's about mind control, it's about one set of arrogant self-righteous people telling another group what they are allowed to think. Listen to the tones of angry huffy moral condemnation if you doubt this. In the name of sensitivity and kindness they are anything but to people who fail to go along with their agenda. They are full of hate, they haven't one shred of basic human tolerance or respect in them, all because of being indoctrinated in what is, yes, a Marxist-originated ideology.
Should we not do the best we can to not make ANY group of people feel marginalized? That is what politically correct speech means to me.
You know what, this is really the dregs of intellectuality the world has sunk to, how far we've fallen from any ability to actually think about things that we have to elevate such banal psychobabble concerns to the heights. Offended feelings is now the criterion for everything? Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Civilized people naturally have sensitivity to people's feelings, you shouldn't have to be upbraided for not following some formula about it; but Marxist PC has no respect for anybody and in reality, again, it isn't about sensitivity, it's about controlling us, shaming us, putting us in our place and shutting us up. Blech.
So, in all seriousness, could you please define, without using political accusations, what "politically correct" speech means to you. And why you find this so troubling.
PC is recognized by just about every conservative as THE Leftist program to control people and destroy people. Horowitz discusses it in that video in my OP. If you listen to any conservative sources you will find it discussed as Leftist tyranny.
I know I've posted this before and it may not add anything to the discussion but I'll post it again: William Lind's famous essay on PC as derived from Cultural Marxism / the Frankfurt Scholl that had such a big influence in the universities in the sixties:
(If you find yourself being offended by anything he says, I would say that's a measure of how you've been infected by PC yourself):
The Origins of Political Correctness, written in 2000.
Where does all this stuff that you’ve heard about this morning — the victim feminism, the gay rights movement, the invented statistics, the rewritten history, the lies, the demands, all the rest of it — where does it come from? For the first time in our history, Americans have to be fearful of what they say, of what they write, and of what they think. They have to be afraid of using the wrong word, a word denounced as offensive or insensitive, or racist, sexist, or homophobic.
We have seen other countries, particularly in this century, where this has been the case. And we have always regarded them with a mixture of pity, and to be truthful, some amusement, because it has struck us as so strange that people would allow a situation to develop where they would be afraid of what words they used. But we now have this situation in this country. We have it primarily on college campuses, but it is spreading throughout the whole society. Were does it come from? What is it?
We call it Political Correctness. The name originated as something of a joke, literally in a comic strip, and we tend still to think of it as only half-serious. In fact, it’s deadly serious. It is the great disease of our century, the disease that has left tens of millions of people dead in Europe, in Russia, in China, indeed around the world. It is the disease of ideology. PC is not funny. PC is deadly serious....
Interesting he traces its origin to a comic strip, which he doesn't name, rather than to Mao.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by herebedragons, posted 03-05-2017 8:22 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2017 2:27 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2017 2:39 AM Faith has replied
 Message 115 by xongsmith, posted 03-06-2017 3:12 AM Faith has replied
 Message 136 by herebedragons, posted 03-06-2017 10:12 AM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 112 of 960 (801410)
03-06-2017 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
03-06-2017 2:20 AM


Lind's Screaming Twitching Hysteria
For the first time in our history, Americans have to be fearful of what they say, of what they write, and of what they think.
What arrant witless lunacy.
It is the great disease of our century, the disease that has left tens of millions of people dead in Europe, in Russia, in China, indeed around the world.
But not, for some reason, here, which might suggest to a sane observer that our modest notion that maybe you shouldn't be mean to black people and homosexuals is in fact something different.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 2:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 113 of 960 (801411)
03-06-2017 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
03-06-2017 1:27 AM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
Faith writes:
I heard recently, correct me if something's changed or is wrong, that France's popular candidate for President, Marine LePen is threatened with imprisonment for saying that ISIS is dangerous.
More fake news that you failed to check but swallowed whole.
She actually published three uncensored pictures of ISIS beheadings.
Under French law, the maximum penalty for distributing violent images is three years in prison and a fine of up to 75,000 (64,000).

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 1:27 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 114 of 960 (801412)
03-06-2017 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
03-06-2017 2:20 AM


Faith's Paranoid Lunacy
PC is recognized by just about every conservative as THE Leftist program to control people and destroy people.
Perhaps you could list some of the people who have been destroyed by political correctness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 2:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 3:24 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 115 of 960 (801413)
03-06-2017 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
03-06-2017 2:20 AM


Re: Political Correctness
Faith opines:
That's a false problem. Rude and uncivil terms are not the aim of Political Correctness...
I think you have a very WEIRD notion of what you are talking about. HBD's description is the way I would describe it, not some mumbo-jumbo Marxist crap. HBD is describing what 98% of people think - it is THE Problem being discussed here, not a false problem.
sad that it appears that you, along with others on the far bat-shit crazy right, have such a warped & broken observation->comprehension->conclusion ability.
Perhaps you should look for a different word for what you are describing. "Propaganda" maybe?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 2:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 116 of 960 (801414)
03-06-2017 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Dr Adequate
03-06-2017 2:39 AM


Re: Faith's Paranoid Lunacy
Sure, the entire Left has been destroyed by it. You can't think, you're perpetually in a huff about something your opponents did, or given over to the stupidest form of what you think of as humor against them, I mean demented stuff; your minds have been reduced to assessing whether something is racist or politically correct.
I'm sure there are also conservative victims of PC who have been shamed into total silence and suffer from deep depression, but that's the sort of thing we wouldn't hear about, would we? Though they should be getting revived by Trump's Presidency finally. Not to mention those assassinated for failure to toe the line. Hard to find that info too and when we do we are buried under such aggressive denials and accusations of conspiracy theories and "Paranoid Lunacy" we're effectively blocked from helping others with the information. Oh, and "batshit crazy" too. Well, fortunately there are millions of people on my side of the great American political divide. Too bad we can't break into separate countries, it would be so much easier on us all.
.
Cheers.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2017 2:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 117 of 960 (801415)
03-06-2017 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by xongsmith
03-06-2017 3:12 AM


Re: Political Correctness
I might prefer another term but Political Correctness is the term we have and changing it would only add to the already crazy level of confusion about what it means.
Propaganda is a good alternative but it doesn't quite get at the systematic ideology-driven nature of PC. Your post is certainly a good example of propaganda-poisoning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by xongsmith, posted 03-06-2017 3:12 AM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by PaulK, posted 03-06-2017 3:36 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 118 of 960 (801416)
03-06-2017 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
03-06-2017 3:24 AM


Re: Faith's Paranoid Lunacy
Faith, have you considered that the main reason you have problems finding support is that you ARE repeating "batshit crazy" conspiracy theories ?
(Because that is pretty damn obvious to the rest of us)

This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 119 of 960 (801417)
03-06-2017 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
03-06-2017 3:33 AM


Re: Political Correctness
But the meaning of "political correctness" HAS been changed. HBD is entirely right about the way the term was used when it first became popular.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 3:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 03-06-2017 3:42 AM PaulK has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 120 of 960 (801418)
03-06-2017 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
03-06-2017 3:24 AM


Re: Faith's Paranoid Lunacy
Sure, the entire Left has been destroyed by it.
I haven't, I'd have noticed.
you're perpetually in a huff about something your opponents did
If that's what you mean by "destroyed", you yourself have been totally obliterated. Take this thread, for example.
I'm sure there are also conservative victims of PC who have been shamed into total silence and suffer from deep depression, but that's the sort of thing we wouldn't hear about, would we?
Given that the right continually whines about imaginary grievances, I'm sure they would if anything be even more keen to publicize a real one.

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